High School and college Admission Advice and Comments

glynch:

Your son sounds a lot like me .

I applied to Harvard, Brown, and Cornell... and got rejected by Harvard, wait-listed by Brown, and accepted to Cornell (but decided against it).

Basically, you need to realize this: a lot of admissions to those schools are random and/or based on things out of your control. I was in the top 15 in a class of about 500, had an SAT of 1510, was a National Merit scholar, and had a very good (but not magnificent) service/achievement record. Problem is, so do most people who apply. More than half of the people they reject are better "statistically" than about half the people they accept. Pretty strange, eh? Harvard rejects more than 50% of the valedictorians that apply as well as more than 50% of the people who get 1600's on the SAT (they're proud of that when you visit their school).

Some things that can help:

1. Skills - most of their applicants do things like debate, student government, etc... but it really helps if you play an instrument very well, have been in an exchange program and are fluent in several languages, have been published, etc.

2. Ethnicity - sad, but true... (although some people tend to think that this only hurts whites... not so, I believe it hurts Asians more).

3. Geography. Some states/demographics are better represented than others. If you're from a ranch in rural North Dakota, you've got a huge advantage.

4. Donations and where *you* went - there's an alumni bonus at most Ivy League schools... and contributions do help (sadly)

That's all I can think of at the moment... though I'm sure there's much more. I hated the process, myself.

 

glynch,

He's just 15. A freshman or sophomore. Are you sure you aren't jumping the gun a little as far as pulling him out of Bellaire so he can get a better class rank elsewhere?

I can't vouch for the Ivy League schools, but I did process applications and admissions for the Honors College back in my sophomore year of college. We certainly took into account which school a person went to when we looked at their class rank - BHS is well-known locally, and perhaps further than that. Just as, if not more, important was the SAT score and application essay.

Anyway, I got turned down for Rice after high school and I was pissed. But it's not like it held me back from doing well in college, getting into a quality law school, and getting a good job afterwards.

 

If you're really really really worried, send him to a private school. Not that they're always good/better, but a good one usually has a strong name amongst college admissions. I know it would cost a lot, but so do the colleges you're hoping he'll get into.

 

Glynch,

Hate to tell you, but moving your son to another school probably won't increase his chances of getting into a better school. The best thing you can do is sit down with him and tell him bluntly that unless he's in the top 10%, he isn't going to UT. It wouldn't hurt to have a copy of an article or even the law itself that explicitly states this.

If your son is truly motivated to get into UT, he'll take care of his class ranking on his own. If he isn't that motivated, then he probably should be going to a lesser ranked school to begin with. Better that he develop academic discipline at his own pace than have it imposed upon him. It's amazing how many smart kids get overwhelmed by the first semester of college simply because they're not used to the freedom. The ones who have had their parents dictating their study schedules/habits are usually the first to fall apart.

As far as the Ivy Leagues go, unless your son is a genuine standout or an alumni's kid (which I'm assuming he isn't), he really doesn't have a chance in hell. But if he does well as an undergrad (wherever he is), his option will be plenty.

 

You don't have to be Top 10 to go to UT, if the son scores well enough on his SAT he should be able to go to any Texas school despite his class rank.

I know I ****ed around a lot in Highschool and didn't pay any attention to my GPA, but got a solid SAT score and was accepted to UT.

 

Not that I took advantage of it, but Honors programs are a great way to get much of the Ivy experience--the better teachers, smaller classes and, of course, inflated grades. Don't know about the qualifications.

Plan II at UT rocks (at least what I heard from people in it over 10 years ago).

Honestly which school you go to generally matters little in college aps (or grad school for that matter). Most of it is pretty formulaic because of the high number of applications and time demands on admissions committees--SAT/GRE/LSAT/MCAT multiplied by some GPA factor is generally first used. Letters of recs, interviews, and essays don't mean much unless someone on the committee knows the endorsee. Of course some other factors--ethnicity/ecomic background, out of state application status--from some states it would be easier than others depending on trends, and especially "personal connections" (alumni, $) could also make some difference. But again these are lesser factors.

 

My experience with Ivy league shcools leads me to believe that the teachers arent necessarily better, class sizes can be enormous and grades aren't always inflated.

Anyway, it seems as if subatomic has the best approach to this situation. No matter how hard you try, sometimes you just have to let the kids develop work-related habits on their own. Who likes to put a lot of time into areas they dislike? Nobody. You can try to explain to your son that going to a better college, while not the be-all, end-all will open up a number of opportunities for him to do what he likes to do as an adult and be successful at it. Explain that he could still be successful otherwise, but a little extra work a day at his age will go a much longer way than it will when he joins the working public. If none of that sinks in, he's going to have to learn it himself.

 

Glynch,

Transfer him to Westbury High School.. I went to Bellaire and didn't have a chance at the top 10(it is rediculous there) and transfered to Westbury and made it EASILY. I made it into UT-Austin automatically... if he has friends there.. go for it!!!!!

 

Personally, my philosphy on colleges are that it's not where you go that counts, but what you do there. Both academically and extracurricularly.

 

Ah, but much has changed grasshopper. The Texas Legislature passed a law that madates that all students who graduate in the top 10% of their class are now automatically admitted to all state schools. UT is the most popular school in Texas so that means just about every Texas H.S. senior who's in the top 10% of their graduating class will be applying there. So the odds are against those outside that magic 10%. Unless of course glynch's son is one hell of an athlete - then he's a lock no matter what his grades are .

 

V-man has a very good point there. You can be an awesome student, but unless you do something to mature socially and gain some leadership skills, you are probably at a disadvantage to those who did extra things in college. It just makes sense to hire a college grad with leadership skills vs. one without.

If your son is planning on staying in the same area (Texas) his whole life, then a good public school will get him a good degree. However, if he thinks he wants to live in a major city outside of Texas, then you may try to get into a big name school. One that carries a lot of weight.

BTW- Someone posted this earlier, he is just 15. Give him some time to mess around a little.

 

Take that a step further, last year UT-Austin started a new provisional program. This stated that a student would be admitted into UT-Austin but had to take 30 hours at one of the other UT-System schools. These college level hours had to be completed during 1 academic year, otherwise they would no longer be eligible.

The sister schools were UTEP, UT-Arlington, UT-Pan American, UTSA, UTPB, and one more I can't think of.

This gives students the false impression that they are being admitted into UT-Austin, when in actuality, it is a complete weed out system. So many students apply there, that there is not enough room for all these punks.

Is UT-Austin really the end all be all to a HS senior? How many students do you think are willing to jump through all these hoops, just for a f*cking school? I mean I love partying in Austin but there are other quality schools in Texas.

Well I guess this is the point, to get some students not to go there. Bastards.

 

I didn't bother reading all of everyone's advice so I'm sorry if I'm being redundent. I just don't think you're approaching it the right way. Getting a good education in high school, going to Ivy League and getting a good education there is not just about 'the game.' Obviously, college has implications for your son's earning power as an adult, the doors that will be open (or closed) to him, his (gasp!) social class. And high school will have some implications as to what college he can get into for that stuff.

Don't worry about that. A good education is beneficial in itself. It's enriching from a personal perspective, whether you get that education in highschool or college or life. I know for my own kids when they come (including the 17 year old I'll get in a few months), I'll sacrifice every-- well a lot for the best school they can attend, because it is a character asset that will shape their entire lives.

As I said, I'm getting a 17 year old in a few months, for whose private education I will be paying I don't know how much. If the private school option falls through, Bellaire is my backup (I'll have to move into the district). But, this is all with the intention of him going to the best private college he can get into.

 

I am involved in this "game" right now.. waiting til apriil 1 is gettting a little stressful for me at the moment.

I am in a situation where I am about where I need to be to get into the really top tier schools that I have applied to, but my application isn't so overwhelming that I am an automatic. Right now I'm at the point that I'm accepting that a lot of it does end up with some luck. When you have that many people applying a lot of people just as qualified end up getting turned down.

Another thing that I think about way too much about now. I decided I would be in band. The way my school calculates GPA it hurts your gpa being in band because it is a non honors class. I'm just hoping the fact that i'm in such an extracurricular will outweight some of the harm it did to my class rank. Oh well 39 days til april 1st..

 

Eh reading this thread I just realized I never did apply for plan II honors at UT .. ah

oh well if I don't get into the schools that I want to come april 1, I can always go to baylor, a&m, or UT..

 

The top 10% rule sucks. It hurts students at competitive high schools. I've read many a horror story in the Chronicle about kids scoring 1300's and being rejected by UT Austin just because they were not top 10%.

Those kids who rely only on the top 10% rule for admission get weeded out so fast (for example, my roommate freshman year). He didn't understand the concept that people actually study at UT.

I'm glad UT instituted this new provisional program. The ones who stick it out deserve a spot. They are forced to take their basics (no blowoffs).

glynch, Bellaire HS will do a better job preparing your son for college than a regular high school. His classmates are the ones he will be competing with for Rice, Ivy, and Plan II spots.

 

Funny story. I applied to A&M in January of my senior year and was offered admission. I didn't know when the deadline for a seat deposit was (May...right?). I decided in February that I was goin to UT so it didn't really matter. Anyways, around March, A&M revokes my offer of admission because I didn't act fast enough. Something like "we are sorry to inform you our class of 2003 has exceed its capacity" etc...

If I had a stamp I seriously would have sent it back saying screw you guys I'm going to Texas.

 

Hello Father...

sorry your son sounds a lot like me.


Here is some advice I have learned (mainly from my sister):

Being #1 in your class even at a big school doesnt get you into an Ivy. My sister was number 1 out of 800+ students at the local public high school and got turned down from Harvard and Yale.

Extra Curriculars are bigger then you might think, and if you are going to do an extracurricular be a leader or a captain because that will really help. But do stuff because you like it and stick with it, dont as they say be "a resume builder" and do student government for a year, do newspaper one year, do yearbook one year, ect.

SATs and other standard tests are important but not as much as they used to be. So make sure he does well and studies for them but getting a 1600 doesnt get you into an Ivy either.

Also it's a good idea to look at what colleges require you to have taken in H.S. now so you can plan out his H.S. schedule to give him the opertunity to go to a good school. This is especially the case with Foreign Language.

So if you are still wondering how my sister got turned down from Yale and Harvard with the best GPA in her class, it was because she had almost no extracurriculars and her SATs weren't great.