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Hey prolifers, who's to be damned for the loss this fetus?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by wnes, Jun 8, 2005.

  1. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    A Wife's Plea

    (link)

    by Lidia Abukhdair

    I am the wife of Staff Sgt. Ali Abukhdair. Under different circumstances, he would be the one addressing this letter to you, but because he is in the military he has lost his freedom of speech and was ordered not to talk to the media.

    My husband is currently an active member of the United States military. He has been serving his country since June 1994. He was deployed for 12 months to Iraq with the 101st Airborne (Air Assault) Division. He was also deployed to a combat zone in Kosovo while he was stationed in Germany. He is a faithful Muslim of Palestinian origin.

    Currently, he is assigned to the 28th Quartermaster 49th Group. They are to deploy sometime during the first days of June. He has filed for conscientious objector (CO) status under AR 600-43. Under regulations, the process is supposed to take 90 days to reach the headquarters of the Department of the Army.

    It has been over 90 days since he applied in February. Regulations state that they are to place him in duties that conflict as minimally as possible with his beliefs, which his unit has not done at all. They have sent him to the range to qualify with a weapon, and they have sent him to live-fire exercises. They have also given him a vehicle license for a which he has not been trained and is not qualified for.

    When he we went to see his first sergeant to apply for CO status, he was told that all he was doing was trying to get out of deployment, despite this being his third major deployment and the fact that he was a member of the 101st and one of the first to enter Iraq.

    He went to see the chaplain, and he recommended a discharge, which is not what my husband wants because he is applying for noncombatant duties to finish his obligations to the military. If the Army wants to give him a discharge, then he has no choice but to accept. He would rather accept this than violate his beliefs by being in any kind of violence.

    Application for CO status proceeds as follows: unit commander, post chaplain, mental evaluation, investigating officer. His commander approved his application, the chaplain believes my husband is sincere in his beliefs and request for CO status, the mental evaluation report said my husband was sane, and the investigating officer also approved his claim and believes my husband's sincerity. When my husband went to see the battalion commander about his situation, all the BC wanted to know is which dialect of Arabic my husband speaks and how he helped the 101st in Iraq as a translator. The BC is biased because of the mission.

    About two months ago, I was pregnant. I was about five months, and my husband sent me to stay with a girlfriend of mine because I was stressed about his situation. After a couple of weeks, I had a miscarriage. My husband came and picked me up, but his command did not want to give him any time off. We are trying to get some type of counseling, but are not having an easy time. Since I am from the Dominican Republic, I do not have permanent resident status in this country and my visa is about to expire. My husband has told his command numerous times of our situation but is not getting much help or time off. I don't have a driver's license, so it will be hard for me to go shopping or to the doctor. My military identification is about to expire, and I can't get a new one until I complete my immigration paperwork . He also told his command about that, and they basically told him that it's his problem.

    My husband joined the military to pay for school. He did his duty and risked his life numerous times. He is just tired of violating his religious beliefs about war. He has tried to let the military know this and has sought counseling, but the military doesn't care. His first sergeant repeatedly tells his soldiers that all he cares about is making sure 145 bodies deploy -- and nobody is going to get out of deployment.
     
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    uh. i don't get it.

    do you think someone is to be damned for EVERY death?
     
  3. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

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    Ah, yes. The patented D&D callout thread. Complete with a link to antiwar dot com.

    Love it!
     
    #3 ima_drummer2k, Jun 8, 2005
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2005
  4. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    No.

    But why the brouhaha about abortion then?!
     
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    are you kidding??? seriously???


    this is a miscarriage. people die of natural causes all the time. my grandfather died of a heart attack. my grandmother died of lung cancer. no one was responsible. no one snuffed out their lives. had my grandparents lost their lives as a result of someone else's actions...or someone denying them their lives...then you'd have a punishable offense, potentially.

    do you seriously not see the difference between a miscarriage and an abortion???
     
  6. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Are you saying all miscarriages are due to natural causes? Isn't there any induced or inflicted miscarriage?

    It's amusing a prolifer would choose "nature" over God on the matter of life.
     
  7. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    what is this thread about?? are you seriously just calling people out??

    call it God, if you wish. I'll call it God, if it makes you feel better. I don't know if you believe in God or not...but I'll leave you to "damn" Him for administering over life and death.

    i don't know about induced on inflicted miscarriages. i don't know enough about it.
     
  8. rhester

    rhester Member

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    Miscarriages are unintended. No one mentioned cause.

    I think you understand what the intent to kill means.

    The cause of death in an abortion is not even a topic.

    The cause of death in a miscarriage is worth researching as many doctors are working to reduce the number of miscarriages.

    "Isn't there any induced or inflicted miscarriage" they are calling that abortion??????????
     
  9. Cesar^Geronimo

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    on the other hand --- why would someone sign up and join the army then say they were conscientious objectors? If you aren't willing to go into combat don't sign up! He wasn't drafted he voluntereed. I remember hearing of some doctors complaining of being called into active duty. They used the miliatary to pay for school but then didn't want to hold up there end of the bargain.

    As far as helping his wife, I think the goverment owes that to the families of men in harms way.
     
  10. mleahy999

    mleahy999 Member

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    This is a terrible reach. Your soapbox priviledges should be reviewed.
     
  11. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    This thread is nonsensical. The miscarriage is not even the point of the article that starts the thread. :confused:
     
  12. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    oh, yeah??? well what about your inherent contradictions and hypocrisy about steroids in baseball, JV???


    what? there was one? ;)
     
  13. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

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    Well, can you prove it's not true?????
     
  14. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Hmm, stern admonishment from someone who suggested 9 lb pot be something of a haystack like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    The patented imadrummer2k D&D one liner. You actually do love it, I think.
     
  16. langal

    langal Member

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    Umm.. the military is to be blamed? And therefore, conservatives are to be blamed, and thus ... pro-lifers are to be blamed!

    Wow - that completely changes my positions on war, economy, and abortion.
     
  17. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Can we at least agree that when you bomb Iraqi women and they and their unborn fetuses die, that this is not being pro-life?
     
  18. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    Well, I guess you can say goodbye to the pro-life movement after this thread. Exposed, big time.
     
  19. mleahy999

    mleahy999 Member

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    This is in jest. Anyone with basic intelligence understands a bale of hay does not represent 9 lbs of goodies. Another reach on your part.
     
  20. Buck Turgidson

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    Thank you glynch, for making this thread complete.
     

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