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Hey Larry, you carpet bagging biatch, wanna' trade?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Hottoddie, Jun 2, 2003.

  1. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Member

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    :D Since you think so highly of Mobley, I was wondering if you'd like to trade for him? Here's my proposal:

    Houston sends Mobley/Moochie to Detroit.
    Houston sends Cato/Rice/next year's #1 pick to Miami.

    Detroit sends Billups/Hubert Davis to Houston.
    Detroit sends Rebracca to Miami.

    Miami sends Brian Grant/Ellis/#5 pick to Houston.
    Miami sends Carter/Ken Johnson to Detroit.


    We then sign Tyronn Lue with part of our mid-level exception, draft the best available player at #5 & have a revamped lineup of:

    C: Yao/Griffin/#5 pick?/Collier?(IL)
    PF: Grant/Taylor/Ellis (expiring contract)/Griffin
    SF: Posey/Nachbar/T-Mo(IL?)
    SG: Francis/Davis (expiring contract)/Hawkins(IL)
    PG: Billups/Lue

    It won't happen, but it would be an improvement. Okay, fire away BBS.
     
  2. A-Train

    A-Train Member

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    I always thought it was "bee-yotch"
     
  3. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

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    LOL, feel better now, Hottoddie?
     
  4. Sane

    Sane Member

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    Hottodie, let's see what you can do to get Rasheed Wallace and Jeff McInnis, for ANY of our players excluding Steve and Yao. Work that trade checker.
     
  5. CrazyJoeDavola

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    Miami sends it best big man and the #5 pick and all they get in return is Cato, Rebracca, Rice and a mid 1st rounder?

    Riley might do it if he goes senile.
     
  6. sjeev4

    sjeev4 Member

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    no a-train... i think that biatch is definately acceptable...
     
  7. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Member

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    Yeah, a little. But, I think I'm going to need some more trade therapy. :D
     
  8. Stylez

    Stylez Member

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    Lets see:

    Grant makes 12 mil and our back up PF makes 8. Thats 20 mil and no superstar at that positition (I like MoT though).

    Griffin would have to put on a ton of weight to be able to play C for signifigant minutes (I don' t know about that, he's struffling at the PF as it is).

    Please tell me what in the hell Detroit would do w/ Mooch (start him? I hope not), Carter (start him? I certainly hope not?) and Cuttino (they have Rip Hamilton at the SG)

    And exactly what would the Miami he want w/ high priced Cato and Rice, and an oft-injured Rebracca and giving away their high lotto pick for our pick that probably wouldn't be a lotto pick?

    Oh, and a Billups/Francis backcourt would produce no assists. Billups is a worse "point guard" than Francis. His passing and bal handling are in no way superior to those on Francis so it would make little since to combine them. The "selfishness" of that backcourt would far surpass that of the Steve & Cat backcourt.

    I don't know if it would be an improvement but you are right, this trade WON'T happen. Its fun to dream though I guess.
     
  9. SLA

    SLA Member

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    Mobley/Moochie for Billups/Davis is definitely fair. I'd do that part.

    Cato/Rice/draft pick for Grant/Ellis/#5 pick.....well benefits Houston more.

    Carter/Ken Johnson.......WHO THE HECK ARE THEY??
    Well Rebraca isn't awesome....he's pretty good...Detroit won't be needing him really...I guess it would work.

    We would have too many power forwards....I don't like that.

    And why waste #5 pick for another center???

    This trade will not happen.

    I don't want to do anything with that B'OTCH.
     
  10. SLA

    SLA Member

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    Billups and Francis would be cool. They look pretty similar.....Billups is great at makin 3's.

    And isn't our offense going to run though Yao Ming and Mo Taylor anyways?!?!?
     
  11. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Member

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    For those that can't see why Miami would do this deal, here's an article from the Miami Herald about a week ago that should explain my thinking.

    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/5934553.htm

    Posted on Sat, May. 24, 2003

    HEAT NOTEBOOK

    Heat explores trading its first-round pick
    BY ISRAEL GUTIERREZ
    igutierrez@herald.com

    With every day comes seemingly another scenario about how the Heat could have more, or less, salary cap room with which to sign free agents this summer.

    For those who are not enamored with any of the prospects that are projected to be available with the No. 5 pick next month, here is yet another scenario that could excite you.

    The Heat could -- such an offer would have to be made of course -- trade its No. 5 pick for another team's future first-round pick, leaving the team with no first-round pick this year. What that would do is free up some extra cap space for the Heat that it would have had to use to sign the No. 5 pick.

    The No. 5 pick is slated to make about $2.4 next year. Without being forced to allocate that money to a draft pick, the Heat could have more than the projected $6 million in space.

    One NBA general manager said the projected salary cap figure is $42.3 million (the actual figure won't be announced until the summer).

    The Heat has Brian Grant, Eddie Jones, Anthony Carter and Caron Butler under contract, totaling about $30 million. After accounting for the cost of ''cap holds'' and retaining a few of its younger players, the team could still have somewhere in the neighborhood of $8 or $9 million in cap space.

    That amount would make the Heat legitimate contenders to sign any free agent outside of Jason Kidd, Tim Duncan and probably Jermaine O'Neal.

    The other group of players available include center Michael Olowokandi, guard Gilbert Arenas and Clippers Andre Miller, Lamar Odom and Elton Brand, although those three are restricted free agents, meaning the Clippers can match any team's offer. The possibilities would also include signing two players in a lower price range.

    Pat Riley could also decide against all of this and choose to re-sign Alonzo Mourning for a year, use a the mid-level salary-cap exception and wait until next year to take advantage of cap space. But Riley said he has been examining this year's free agents very closely.

    ''We're scouting free agents that we scout on a regular basis unlike we've ever scouted them before, to really see how good these guys are,'' Riley said. ``Sometimes you sign a free agent and they have one specific skill, but they're a nightmare in a lot of other situations. So we're doing both things. Even players on other teams that we feel might be possibilities for sign-and-trades, we're really scouting those guys.''

    SETTING ROOKIE BAR

    If the Heat do take a player in the first round of June's draft, he will have a lot to live up to following Butler's impressive debut season.

    Butler averaged a rookie-best 15.4 points, improving as the season progressed, and finished third in Rookie of the Year balloting.

    Riley figures another rookie would carry almost as much responsibility next season.

    ''I expected it [from Butler] because I knew we were going to force feed him, but he stepped up when he played the entire season,'' Riley said. ``We expect if we draft somebody that he's going to have an immediate impact because we're going to put him out there and play him.''

    Butler recognized that he set a high standard for future Heat rookies, but said he and his teammates would support next year's rookie no matter what is asked of him.

    As for who that rookie could be, Butler mentioned Georgetown forward Mike Sweetney, Georgia Tech forward Chris Bosh and Marquette's Dwayne Wade as intriguing prospects. Butler also threw out another name that isn't expected to be heard anywhere near the top of the draft.

    '' `Reece Gaines is a nice prospect,'' Butler said. ``He's very versatile.''

    Gaines would have to make a dramatic climb up draft charts to be an option for the Heat at No. 5.

     
  12. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Member

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    I don't really care for Rasheed, but I'll see if I can throw something together for you. It'll have to be later though, I'm going to go see "The Italian Job" in a few minutes.

    Ciao, baby. :D
     
  13. CrazyJoeDavola

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    Hotdoddie,

    The problem with your thinking, and the basing of that thinking on this article, is the fact that you are expanding on the teams feelings on possibly trading away that draft pick. What they are wanting to do is trade away that pick so that they don't have that pick eating into the excess cap room that they have this summer. Thats why the article states:

    "The Heat could -- such an offer would have to be made of course -- trade its No. 5 pick for another team's future first-round pick, leaving the team with no first-round pick this year. What that would do is free up some extra cap space for the Heat that it would have had to use to sign the No. 5 pick."

    They are not looking to take big contracts in return for that pick. They just want to put off the cap space that pick will take up so they can make one final, big run in the FA market this summer.

    Trading away Grant for Rice and Cato does nothing for them salary cap wise (Grant is better than Rice and Cato) and actually, probably reduces their cap space. It totally goes against the objectives they are trying to reach.
     
  14. Genuine

    Genuine Member

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    Hey Larry, how about Eddie Griffin for Ben Wallace.
     
  15. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Member

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    Uhhh, okay, I'll respond to this before I go to the movie.

    Of the 4 players that Miami sends out in this deal (Grant/Ellis/Carter/Johnson), only Grant's contract goes beyond this year. He makes just over $12 million this year. Of the 3 players that Miami takes back (Cato/Rice/Rebracca), only Cato's contract goes beyond this year. He makes just over $6 million this year. That means a savings of about $6 million off of next year's cap.

    If, according to the article, they can move this year's pick for a future pick, that gives them about $8-9 million in cap space this year to sign a big name FA or 2 second tier FA's. Then when Rice's contract expires next year, they'll have more cap space available than the mid-level exception would give them, to go sign another FA.

    As for your contention that our pick next year will be a mid-round pick, how do you know that? Anything could happen by next year, player injuries, team chemistry disruptions, new coach not working out, who knows? All you have to do, is get in the lottery to have a chance at the #1 overall pick. Do you think Memphis would've given Detroit the future #1 pick for Thorpe, if they had any belief that their team would still be where it is today? Anything can happen. Throw the proposal out there & see if they bite.
     
  16. CrazyJoeDavola

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    Based on that article, they are looking for excess cap room THIS year, not next. Thats why I feel you are trying to expand on Miami's objective here. That article clearly states that they want to defer than 1st round picks salary to a later year so that they have even more room to sign possibly two big name FAs this summer (not next).

    That article, to me, sounds like Miami wants to do a straight up deal where they will get a definite future lottery pick in return (like Memphis, Denver, Cleveland, etc.) instead of taking a chance with another team who is closer to making the playoffs. They are probably not interested in trading what talent base they have. Why make a trade like that with the Rockets (a trade that isn't equal talent wise or draft pick wise (potentially)) when they can accomplish their whole goal (as stated in the article) by trading that pick to Denver for their pick next year? See what I am saying?

    Your trade, talent wise, obviously does not improve Miami.
    They want to do this because time is running out on the careers of Grant, Jones and Riley. Miami feels that with the addition of those two big name FAs, they can be a contender next year (add a Payton and an O'Neal to Butler, Grant and Jones and you have a hell of a team).
     
  17. hikanoo49

    hikanoo49 Member

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    How about:

    Eddie Griffin
    Boki
    Future #2
    Mo Taylor
    Cuttino

    FOR

    Ben Wallace
    @2 pick (Darko)
    Jon Barry
    CAP FILLER

    ROX

    Yao-Cato
    Ben Wallace-Cato
    Darko-Posey
    Posey-Jon Barry
    Steve-Jon Barry

    Detroit
    Okur
    Mo Taylor-Eddie G-Corliss
    Hamilton-Boki-Prince
    Cat
    Billups


    Detroit adds some instant offense with Cat and Mo T will give them ample scoring up front (plus, he was a Wolverine so they will like him). Eddie and Boki are promising young players that they can groom.

    Houston adds a premier rebounding/defender in Wallace as well as a top pick for Darko. This will be the biggest and baddest front court ever assembled and will rival Parish/Mchale/Bird. Barry will be a good veteran backup.

    And if Larry doesn't accept this, we can threaten him with tampering violations :)
     
  18. CrazyJoeDavola

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    Hikanoo,

    Why would Detroit want to trade the #2 pick and the cornerstone of their team for people they don't need?

    They don't need Griffin (they got Wallace), they don't need Taylor (Cliff Robinson) and they don't need Cuttino (Rip Hamilton).

    That trade makes them worse, not better.
     

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