I thought this was very interesting talking about the Spurs vs the Rockets cap woes: While building a champion, the Spurs stuck to their plan. Only sixth man Malik Rose is locked into a long-term deal, enabling the Spurs to collect as much cap space as possible to replace the retiring David Robinson and to bring another superstar to Duncan's side. Duncan, who can become a free agent this summer, plans to sign a maximum contract with San Antonio after the rest of the roster is complete. The Spurs reportably started thinking about this after they got Duncan in 97 and really stuck with it in the summer of 01. That same summer we had similar decisions to make about our roster.We had free agents Norris,Taylor,Anderson and Hakeem. That same summer, we also had 3 1st rd draft pick to play with. Imagine.......... never mind.
I agree with you about cap management. See my previous thread on "How to rebuild the Rockets" (or similar topic name) and consider my proposal how we free up cap space in the summer of 2005. We've already blew it one time and can't afford to blow another chance.
The only plan they had that matters is their plan to tank to get Duncan. He's their whole team. Quit acting like the Spurs are these great masterminds. They tanked, got Duncan, and are now able to start guys like Stephen Jackson and still win as a result.
Yes, they do have Duncan.....but they went and found players like Parker and Ginobili. Also, they haven't made stupid contract decisions like MoT, Moochie, Cato, Maloney, etc....etc....
Yeah. It's a good thing that the Rockets didn't tank during the second half of the 2001-02 season. We got the #1 pick in the draft (Yao) by being a very good and competitive team that year).
We also got Lucky we got the first pick and were able to get Ming. We were supposed to get the 6th pick.
my plan is to let rice's contract expire this year, let cato's contract expire before ming's extension, let moochie's and mo t's contracts expire the next year and to sign posey to a 4 year deal so he expire's at the same time and then use some cap room to get other people. however, i have no idea how much we'll have to pay griffin or mobley (or if we don't keep them, whoever we pay to be our sg/pf). that also doesn't factor in keeping 12 people on the roster but i'm sure there's a way to do it (i haven't really thought the plan through, just my initial thoughts). failing that, still let rice's contract expire, get rid of moochie and mo t's contract for any earlier ending contract (obviously talent must leave with them to make this happen), don't sign posey and have lots of cap room before ming's extension kicks in. this brings up a question for you cap geniuses. if we sign ming to an extension, it kicks in 3 years down the road. cato's contract ends at the same time and if we renounce him, does that free up his salary from the cap before ming's extension kicks in and would we be able to sign someone after renouncing cato but before the extension kicks in? i.e. can extensions start applying to the cap in say august, giving us from july 1st until the extension date to sign someone? essentially, can cato come off the cap, we sign someone for however much we are under the cap (assume we're under) and then when ming's extension kicks in say a month later to put us over the cap, is he essentially signed with bird rights? basically that's the only way i see us getting a 3rd huge player on the team (squeeze his huge contract in before signing ming with bird rights) without trading, which i'm also open to but am not considering b/c this seems to be a plan wrt the cap , not trades, thread. however, i don't either of my plans is that realistic (nor do i know who the available FA's to pursue are at those times) but those are what i would try to follow while drafting smartly. i don't wanna follow the gospel according to the spurs too closely b/c i think trying to copy any team can lead to problems if all the right circumstances don't apply again, but european people who won't be here for a few years are a good way to get quality with late picks so i might try that, like this year when we only have a 2nd rounder.
My plan was to resign Hakeem to 8mill per season for 2 seasons. Ues the Draft picks to draft Jefferson,Randolph and Haywood. Play that lineup out, but focus on the yr this yr when Hakeem contract expires. Add the player you need and then add the impact fa and roll with it. That was my plan.
Serendipity. 1. The faculty of making fortunate discoveries by accident. 2. The Spurs lucking into the #1 pick in Duncan's year, and winning two championships where all the other contenders didn't really show up. (not to mention having scrubs show up and play off of Duncan really well) 3. Francis getting hurt for most of a season, giving us Yao Ming. Frankly, your plan sounds good, but it would not likely have given us a championship level team. Unless you are a big money team, you have to have a little bit of luck to reach the top.
Maybe its luck, but its hard to ignore how low in the draft the Spurs drafted Parker and Ginobili. And then Stephen Jackson, say what you will about his streakiness, but this player wasn't even on the radar screen coming into last season. The Spurs definitely tanked to get Duncan though (I'm glad someone else realizes that). That season the Spurs had Robinson, Avery Johnson, and two other key contributors on the injured list, Robinson of course being the most notable. Robinson was reportedly healthy enough to come back in January of that season, but the Spurs had him sit out the rest of the season in order to increase their odds of winning the lottery. They did just that winning something like 21 games and beating out Boston for the top pick. Call it clever planning if you want, but I thought it was a little too blatant a strategy to get my respect. The draft is there to help the really bad teams improve. The Spurs competed for the division the year before the injury bug hit them so they definitely did not fit the bill.
But once the spurs sign their big time free agent and give parker and ginobili their contracts, that will be the team they are stuck with for a long time. If it is not enough to get it done because of the Kings, Mavs, Lakers, and Rockets, there is nothing they will be able to do because they are a small market team and won't be able to go over the luxury tax threshold. The cap catches up to everyone including the spurs. They are just lucky they signed their best player during the current CBA unlike the Lakers and Minnesota.
You only get paranoid about the team if you consider the money being spent now is being wasted. Like the owner said last year this is the most talented team put together. I do not know about most but I know it is very talented. The fact that it was not in the finals, is purely Rudy T's fault. If JVG gets this team to play to its potential over the next 3 yrs, the so called mistakes of a few years ago will no longer be considered mistakes. I like the fact that JVG is going to look at every game and every possession. I have started my annual review myself and I can only shake my head in disgust at the lost opportunity. I remain steadfast that I like this team as is and with further development and maturation of each of our younger players and the presence of JVG, this team is rock solid.
The only possible way we can get rid of all these horrible big contracts is trade Mo Taylor, Kelvin Cato, and Moochie Norris for Antonio McDyess and Charlie Ward. That is if Antonio McDyess's contract expires at the end of next season. Yep! The Rockets messed up...at least we got Yao. The Spurs are in a great situation. Planned perfectly...or got very lucky.
How do you know Ginobili and Parker are all that good? My own feeling is that Duncan is so good he makes all his scrub teammates look good too. We've never seen Parker or Ginobili play on another NBA team. We have seen Jackson and he has sucked everywhere else. Speedy Claxton has had a pretty spotty history too. Malik Rose has only been solid in the Duncan years. Bowen has been pretty marginal his whole career too. The fact that these other scrubs fill important roles on a championship team suggests to me that the situations of Parker and Ginobili might not be that much different -- that it is just that there is no other NBA history to judge them by. If these guys were drafted by Milwaukee (I won't say Houston in order to avoid some needless Rudy-bashing), would they have the reputations they now enjoy?
good points. imo, manu ginobili = sarunas marciullonis. their games are so alike, it's ridiculous. tony parker is a tough one to call, though. i tend to believe that his flaws do get covered up by having duncan. however, i think he is also held back by duncan in some ways, namely scoring. i strongly believe parker is a 20-25 ppg scorer on a different team. he is every bit the talent steve francis is...minus the rebounding. jackson, you're spot on. on any other team, his recklessness gets exposed even moreso than it does with the *spurs. bowen, you're spot on...well almost. he has not been marginal with others. he has sucked. but, having tim duncan behind him defensively allows bowen to take advantage of his biggest asset - lateral foot speed. defensively, he was already good. but he now can play even tighter defense. claxton actually was a decent player before he got to the spurs. no one ever heard about him, though, because 1) he was injured his entire rookie season; and 2) he couldn't get much PT behind iverson & snow. i've suggested in other threads this season that the rockets should go after speedy this offseason, only to be rebutted by moronic comments. the truth is that speedy claxton is a damn fine point guard. so, when we look at the spurs, you have the best player in the nba that has been surrounded by young, developing talent that can complement the "big fundamental". oh, and a truckload of caproom. is there a more ideal situation? i don't think so. so, when i look at the rockets, i see one franchise player - yao ming. i see one borderline superstar - steve francis. the rest are ALL complementary parts...some of which are grossly overpaid. if you believe the rockets need another true franchise player - which i do - there are only two options for upgrading the team: 1) trade for better player(s) - this is very difficult because of the extreme prices we paid for what are truly only role players. 2) free agency - this means we trade for equal or less players (talentwise) but with shorter contracts. - this, to me, is the best option out there. we could sent motay or cato + whatever to minnesota for terrel brandon. or we could send players to the knicks for mcdyess' contract. point being, we have to free up enough cap space to go after a true superstar to go alongside yao ming. and i don't mean antonio davis type of players. i'm thinking along the lines of jermaine o'neal, kevin garnett, kobe bryant, t-mac, etc. players that have a proven value and are in the same age bracket as yao ming. actually, there is a third option: 3) yao ming becomes the best player in the nba. - as much as i like yao ming, until he develops the killer instinct, he can never be the best in the nba. until he believes that he can be the best, he never can. and until he gets it into his head that he MUST be aggressive, he will never become #1. ... so there's my thoughts and plans for the rockets. we need to start looking long term with the team and stick with a well thought out plan...
Jaun Valdez I totally agree with everything you say. It seems like the grass is always greener on the otherside. The spurs tanked the year they won the lottery and I heard that from two spurs players that I used to play pickup ball with in the summer, David Robinson easily could have played the latter part of that season. I agree with you that Tim Duncan erases many of the his teammates weaknesses.
I thought Ginobili was on that olympic team, last year, that killed the US team? I might be mistaken, but I thought Ginobili was the key, to that teams ride to the top.
you'd be correct in saying that. Ginobili was outstanding during the WC's. anyone saying his performance this year was due to entirely to duncan doesn't know what they're talking about.
