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Health Care Revisited

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by thumbs, Nov 26, 2014.

  1. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    From the graphs I provided, it is clear that as spending declined so did the deficit, so did the debt. It was the biggest contributor to both. The US was manufacturing war machines to go around the world; when that monumental effort ended the deficit dropped hard.

    Furthermore, I think you need to be introduced to Ida May Fuller. I'm surprised anyone believes in the trust fund. It's like saying the government makes money off itself. Companies do not indebt themselves (except the Federal Reserve). They buy capital and pay back their debt. That's why my federal debt is only in the $13 trillion mark.

    Medicare and Medicaid need their priorities reconsidered. But trying to get 5 million undocumented immigrants to pay taxes isn't going to solve the issue.
     
  2. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    No, your graphs don't make this clear at all. What is absolutely undeniable is that it was the combination of tax hikes and spending cuts that eliminated the deficit after the war. It is simple math. You're welcome to argue against math, but you will lose every time.

    Social Security is social insurance. As with every other insurance product, some people get more in benefits than they pay in while others get less. While I agree that there are some issues with SS that need to be resolved, these issues can be solved with relatively minor tweaks.

    The government is not a corporation. The trust fund was created by decree of Congress, which allowed the cash reserves to be spent while the trust fund holds the US Treasuries, earning interest. Your unwillingness to read the link I've posted for you twice is telling. You don't seem interested in actually learning how it works, instead thinking that "Ida May Fuller" is all you need to debunk the whole idea of the trust fund.

    The vast majority of undocumented immigrants are already paying taxes even though they will never see benefits.
     
  3. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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  4. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    As soon as spending went down so did the deficit. Tax rate had already been increasing but there were no noticeable spikes in deficit due to taxes.

    There is an actual difference in the two federal debt figures because of what is marketable and what is not. SS indebting Medicare and Medicaid means the debt is closer to $13 trillion. The money SS makes must be transferred through debt incurred by those two programs.

    That is essentially what Enron tried to do
     
  5. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Signed my parents up for plans this year. They would have paid $1200.00 a month but with the ACA tax credit subsidies they will only pay $450 a month!
     
  6. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    I would like to hear his insane stretch of the term major country. Moron.
     
  7. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    moron? really?


    Norway 1912 Single Payer
    New Zealand 1938 Two Tier
    Japan 1938 Single Payer
    Germany 1941 Insurance Mandate
    Belgium 1945 Insurance Mandate
    United Kingdom 1948 Single Payer
    Kuwait 1950 Single Payer
    Sweden 1955 Single Payer
    Bahrain 1957 Single Payer
    Brunei 1958 Single Payer
    Canada 1966 Single Payer
    Netherland 1966 Two-Tier
    Austria 1967 Insurance Mandate
    United Arab Emirates 1971 Single Payer
    Finland 1972 Single Payer
    Slovenia 1972 Single Payer
    Denmark 1973 Two-Tier
    Luxembourg 1973 Insurance Mandate
    France 1974 Two-Tier
    Australia 1975 Two Tier
    Ireland 1977 Two-Tier
    Italy 1978 Single Payer
    Portugal 1979 Single Payer
    Cyprus 1980 Single Payer
    Greece 1983 Insurance Mandate
    Spain 1986 Single Payer
    South Korea 1988 Insurance Mandate
    Iceland 1990 Single Payer
    Hong Kong 1993 Two-Tier
    Singapore 1993 Two-Tier
    Switzerland 1994 Insurance Mandate
    Israel 1995 Two-Tier
     
  8. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    But you just listed every socialist countries in the world. :eek:
     
  9. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I'm sorry you're too deluded to notice, but I showed a graph which showed revenues increasing dramatically starting in 1942. Without this increase, the deficit would have been even bigger than it was already because of war spending. Thus, as I have been saying, it was the combination of higher taxes AND lower spending that closed the deficit. Your choice to ignore one side of the equation doesn't eliminate that side, it just means you have chosen to wear ideological blinders.

    Again, you could actually learn about how all this works by simply clicking on the link and reading. Your assumptions are incorrect.
     
  10. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    China, Cuba , Viet Nam, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Laos?

    or depending on your definition, every government in the world that provides any social welfare.
     
  11. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Apologies for being away from the thread for so long -- I had other obligations.

    First, let's stop majoring on the minors. Regardless of whether the deficit is going down at a a faster or slower rate, we are still running a deficit and the debt is rising dramatically.

    Second, solving the health care dilemma, not deficit/debt, via a fair compromise is my primary focus. Both sides must give ground to gain ground. My proposals in the OP were designed to provide a starting point rather than a finished solution. Can we get back to that?
     
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Arguing that the US isn't a major country is weak sauce, even for you case.
     
  13. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    So the argument is India and China are major countries and they guarantee health care or they are not major countries? How does one qualify guarantee? Russia's is worthless.
     
  14. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    In 1942 taxes may have dramatically starting increasing but right after the war the deficit dramatically dropped - due to lack of spending.

    Don't believe me that Medicare and Medicaid are the biggest drivers of the national debt? Here is what Obama has to say:

    It is clear as day that any surplus in the SS trust fund goes directly to purchase debt issued by Medicare and Medicaid. or some other government program This is why the US national debt is closer to $13 trillion than it is $18 trillion.
     
  15. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    Is there a difference between health care and medical care? Say, if I break my leg, I cannot be garunteed health care?
     
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Congratulations semantic avenger ~ another mighty triumph for indefatigable literalism
     
  18. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Not that much worse than vague absolutism. Developed would have probably been a more accurate term than major, under which India, Russia and China very reasonably fall.
     
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Oh now I totally understand what he meant ~ thank god you spelled it out, couldn't have inferred that otherwise.
     
  20. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    The deficit dropped due to the combination of reduced war spending along with the increased revenues from the tax hike. Claiming otherwise is arguing against mathematics.

    No, the SS trust fund is invested in US Treasuries, not "debt issued by Medicare and Medicaid." You can learn all about it, I provided a link that you refuse to click on and read.
     

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