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Health Care Activists Targetting Democrats

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Jun 28, 2009.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    The legislative battle over health care is showing some major fractures in the Democrats coalition and pitting many of the liberal organizations that helped put the Democrats into power against Congressional Democrats.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31590964/ns/politics-washington_post//

    Health-care activists targeting Democrats
    Sniping among liberals may jeopardize votes needed to pass bill

    In the high-stakes battle over health care, a growing cadre of liberal activists is aiming its sharpest firepower against Democratic senators who they accuse of being insufficiently committed to the cause.

    The attacks — ranging from tart news releases to full-fledged advertising campaigns — have elicited rebuttals from lawmakers and sparked a debate inside the party over the best strategy for achieving President Obama's top priority of a comprehensive health-system overhaul.

    The rising tensions between Democratic legislators and constituencies that would typically be their natural allies underscore the high hurdles for Obama as he tries to hold together a diverse, fragile coalition. Activists say they are simply pressing for quick delivery of "true health reform," but the intraparty rift runs the risk of alienating centrist Democrats who will be needed to pass a bill.

    In recent days — and during this week's congressional recess — left-leaning bloggers and grass-roots organizations such as MoveOn.org, Health Care for America Now and the Service Employees International Union have singled out Democratic Sens. Ben Nelson (Neb.), Mary Landrieu (La.), Ron Wyden (Ore.), Arlen Specter (Pa.) and Dianne Feinstein (Calif.) for the criticism more often reserved for opposition party members.

    "Will Mary Landrieu sell out Louisiana for $1.6 million?" says one Internet ad that suggests a link between contributions she has received from the medical industry and her reluctance to back the creation of a government-sponsored insurance option.

    Power of grass-roots?
    In many instances, the ad buys are relatively small. But Obama demonstrated the political power of Internet-based grass-roots activity in the presidential campaign. Still, as health care moves from electoral rallying cry to the tedious work of legislating, Obama finds himself caught between his campaign foot soldiers and the elected politicians who will vote.

    One of his most stalwart supporters, for instance, says time is running out on efforts by the president and Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) to forge a bipartisan compromise on legislation affecting more than one-fifth of the economy.

    "We are getting to the point if people aren't going to respond to the patience and openness of Senator Baucus, we should begin to make a different plan," said Andrew Stern, president of the 2 million-member SEIU.

    Stern said his organization issued a release chastising Feinstein last week, because she should "put her foot on the gas, not the brake" on health reform.

    "The gas pedal to go where?" Feinstein replied, explaining she has questions about how a broad expansion of health coverage will be paid for.

    "I do not think this is helpful. It doesn't move me one whit," she said. "They are spending a lot of money on something that is not productive."

    Much of the sparring centers around whether to create a government-managed health insurance program that would compete with private insurers. Obama supports the concept, dubbed the "public option," but he has been vague on details. Left-of-center activists want a powerful entity with the ability to set prices for doctors and hospitals.

    But in the Senate, where the Democrats do not have the 60 votes needed to stop a filibuster, members are weighing alternatives such as a nonprofit cooperative or a "fallback" provision that would kick in only if market reforms fail.

    "Democratic senators are taking millions of dollars from insurance and health-care interests and getting lobbied by those donors and coming out against a position that 76 percent of Americans agree on," said Adam Green, interim chief executive of Change Congress.

    While recent polls show high initial support for a government option, the number declines if told the insurance industry could fold as a result. Change Congress and its sister group Progressive Change Campaign Committee are airing cable and Internet ads against lawmakers such as Landrieu and Nelson, who have not endorsed a robust public plan.

    Green, in an interview, was hard-pressed to articulate a substantive argument for the public plan but said that it "has become a proxy for the question of Democrats who stand on principle and represent their constituents."

    The Web-based MoveOn.org plans to run ads this week against Sen. Kay Hagan (D-N.C.) over the issue.

    "The Democrats were voted into office to fix this problem," said MoveOn political advocacy director Ilyse Hogue. "It is absolutely our job to hold them accountable."

    One Democratic strategist who is working full-time on health reform was apoplectic over what he called wasted time, energy and resources by the organizations.

    The strategist, who asked for anonymity because he was criticizing colleagues, said: "These are friends of ours. I would much rather see a quiet call placed by [Obama chief of staff] Rahm Emanuel saying this isn't helpful. Instead, we try to decimate them?"

    Richard Kirsch, campaign manager of the labor-backed Health Care for America Now coalition of 1,000 groups, believes grass-roots pressure and targeted advertising are already having an impact. After the group aired a spot in Pennsylvania attacking Specter for remarks critical of a public plan — and supplemented that with flyers and phone calls — the lawmaker shifted.

    At an event Thursday, Specter said he is willing to consider a compromise. "That shows Senator Specter has come a long way," Kirsch said.

    Listening to constituents, even those speaking over the airwaves, is part of "representative democracy," Specter said.

    But Kirsch may still end up being disappointed by the newest Democratic senator. Specter, voicing the sort of flexibility the groups dislike, said, "This legislation is so complicated and so important that we all ought to be flexible and not approach it with fixed positions."

    Like Specter, Wyden is sanguine about ads in his home state intended to pressure him to embrace a liberal bill.

    "I get an election certificate from the people of Oregon," said Wyden, whose bipartisan health bill picked up its 14th co-sponsor last week. "As far as these ads are concerned, I pay them no attention."
     
  2. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Well what do you expect. Something like 70% of the population is for insuring all Americans. Among Democrats it must be about 85% or more and you have Democratic congress people more concerned about pleasing health care lobbyists than their Democratic supporters.

    Hell yes, we are pissed off.

    The article should be focused on chastising these legislators for being pawns of the health care lobby instead of ragging on activists.

    As Krugman says: (almost quote)Obama loves to keep saying "let's not make the perfect the enemy of the good. Well let's not make the not good eough the enemy of the good.".
     
  3. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Well what do you expect. Something like 70% of the population is for insuring all Americans. Among Democrats it must be about 85% or more and you have Democratic congress people more concerned about pleasing health care lobbyists than their Democratic supporters.

    Hell yes, we are pissed off.

    The article should be focused on chastising these legislators for being pawns of the health care lobby instead of ragging on activists.

    As Krugman says: (almost quote)Obama loves to keep saying "let's not make the perfect the enemy of the good. Well let's not make the not good eough the enemy of the good.".
     
  4. glynch

    glynch Member

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    duplicate.
     
  5. Major

    Major Member

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    The problem is that while it's easy to agree that you need health care reform, there's not nearly as much agreement on how extensive that reform should be and what shape it should take.
     
  6. Medicine N Music

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    That's exactly how I feel too. I mean, almost everybody in the US would like to have a "public option" to cut down the cost of health care, but how are we going to to this? I'm just tired of people supporting this idea without any specific details. If Obama has a good plan, then why has he been so vague about everything? I would love to get cheaper care, but I doubt he has a plan that will make sense and cut future spending (no, not his one sided projections).
     
  7. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    was it a triplicate? The duplicate remains.
     
  8. Refman

    Refman Member

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    Exactly. There are cost considerations at a time when our government has gone unusually into debt to bail out banks and essentially purchase auto manufacturers. We can not afford to go a few hundred billion more into debt.

    There is another problem that is troubling. The government will set prices for doctors and hospitals? If I am the best and brightest, do I want to have what I can charge capped? This may very well end up being a tremendous disincentive for young people to attend med school. If not taken on very carefully, this alone could impact the quality of care available.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    What is the basis of this quantitative analysis?

    I recall a few weeks or months ago you ridiculed me for ridiculing your suggestion that the US' credit rating was going to be downgraded "soon" - I responded with a proposition - since this is a somewhat related topic, do you have an answer to my proposition? (I believe it was no downgrade with in 6 months)
     
  10. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Question: Do we really need more doctors that are only in it for the money?

    Rocket River
     
  11. Major

    Major Member

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    How is this any different from private health care companies capping what the doctor can charge?
     
  12. moestavern19

    moestavern19 Member

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    This is America, we're all only in it for the money.
     
  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Because its free market. If the doctor doesn't like it, then he doesn't have to accept that insurance. That is why when you call a doctor for the first time, you ask if they take your insurance.

    I think before anyone supports any type of public health bill, they need to take a tour of all the non profit and government ran facilities.
     
  14. Major

    Major Member

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    Government-run Medicare is the same way. Doctors have the choice whether to accept it or not. No doctor is required to accept insurance they don't want to, government-run or not.

    Why? None of the proposals involve having more non-profit or government run facilities.
     
  15. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    That is kind of the problem to begin with . . .
    whether or not you actually help someone is a bit of an afterthought
    just get paid.

    Health Insurance companies are only in it for the money
    so . . . they will lie cheat steal and in some cases kill
    to keep the profit margins at a certain level. . . . . no . . to attempt to increase it
    You have a company making 10% profit for 10 yrs
    . . . .folx are upset about the lack of 'growth'

    being so profit driven . . . . Is it any surprise that we are in our current state

    Rocket River
     
  16. moestavern19

    moestavern19 Member

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    Thats the dark side of an uber-Capitalist mentality.

    Creating a cash machine that is so big and so efficient that eventually no one can stop it.
     
  17. bingsha10

    bingsha10 Member

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    And how do you get that dragon's share of profits? Providing good care maybe?

    Ranting against the profit motive may be alright against healthcare providers which serve no real purpose except to drive the costs of things up, but certainly not doctors.
     
  18. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Don't be cruel, Sam.
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Public university hospitals are non-profit and government run and they do a pretty good job. In fact some of the best are non-profit and government run including the Mayo Clinic.
     
  20. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    It all comes down to cost again. Why is the system so expensive? Well the money is going some where. Docotors, hospitals, insurance companies, drug companies. The only way to cut cost is to make someone make less money. However, that is not going to work because all of these groups are too powerful. That is capitalism at its best (money is all powerful).

    I think the better option is to make the it so that you have to pay all your money for life saving medicine, surgery, etc. I mean why the hell not, if you want to live, you got to pay.
     

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