Hayes v. Howard v. Battier at PF: Why Start Howard?

Because if he doesn't he's going to suck even more off the bench, to big of an ego blow, and because JVG loves him too much as a person to see his problems on a basketball court. More importantly Battier shouldn't start at PF, and Chuck Hayes isn't ready to start now if ever, and I'm a big fan of his. Looks like we need an upgrade at PF...

 

You said it! And Battier moves far better without the ball, plays better team D, IMO, and his passing is something we'll all sit back and watch with a big grin on our faces. We've really, really needed a role-player like Battier. I'm excited about getting him, and how we got him is something I'll continue to try and put out of my mind. We're going to love having this guy.

 

You start Howard because Battier is going to play the 3.. and Hayes is more of a guy off the bench.

 

If Howard is starting this off season was a bust. He was the biggest weakness on a healthy rockets roster last year and he is only getting older. I agree he is okay for spot up duty. He is still a decent scorer and if Tmac and Yao or both on the bench that might be a time when JHO is useful but if his ego can't handle that role than the IR is his best spot.

 

I think we have to assume Howard's just going to get worse next season. His PER has gotten steadily worse.

Hayes might be more effective coming off the bench, but I think the same goes for Howard. It's not going to happen, but I think we'd be better off starting Hayes over Howard this season.

 

I just don't see how a rotational player at one position is nearly as bad as some of you make Howard out to be. Do you remember that we were the best team in the league over the last two months of the 2005 season with a combination of Bowen, Padgett, and Weatherspoon? That might have been the worst power forward rotation in the league, but we did just fine despite it. And why? Because McGrady and Yao were at the top of their games, while we had solid perimeter defense and shooting from James, Sura, Wesley, and Barry.

This season is not a bust if Howard is on the team. Personally, I would much rather have a Jeffries, Magliore, or Lorenzen Wright, who can provide more athleticism and defensive ability, then give way to Battier, Hayes, and Novak when we need other elemnts in the game at the four. But nevertheless a rotational player does not determine a team's success.

 

Well just to be fair to howard ( and I will admit I want him out of the roster)- I think if we cut his minutes down perhaps he will not be that terrible in defense. I guess that is where Hayes and Mr Battier will figure prominently.
May be we are down to a PF by rotation depending on which team we are playing.

Quite frankly half the western conference Power Forwards are Franchise players and atleast 2 future Hall of Famers- the others are not that shabby either. If we cut down the defensive blunders, we can get the offense part taken care of at other positions.

 

i agree with you on your points on the 4 spot.

However, I think the biggest hole there is that we don't have a starting-caliber guy for the 2/3 spot aside from T-Mac if we move Battier to the 4.

Starting James is an option, but that puts either James or Rafer (or in some cases, both) on a much much taller player--potentially a good one. It would make for some huge matchup problems. In all your talk of dictating the matchups...you forgot that we'd be "dictated to" in the backcourt.

If we can use the MLE to sign a starting-caliber 2-guard, then I'd be all for this move. As it stands...IF we get James, I'd prefer him to get only partial minutes at the 2 spot when we go small (with Shane sliding to the 4) and as a spark off the bench if that's his role..

 

It kind of undercuts your argument when you consider that we were one of the best teams in the league after Juwan Howard was deactivated.

 

Howard is not great, but his basketball IQ is decent. IMO, he doesn't get beat really badly in his matchups, rather he slowly bleeds out over time due to lack of athleticism. I'm in favor of this sort of lineup:

Starters:
Yao/Howard/Battier/TMac/James
This gives you a big lineup which should be strong in the half-court game, and which sets a good tone at the outset. Howard spots up for 15-footers, TMac and James attack from outside, Yao posts, and Battier gets garbage points.

Hayes can replace Howard, but it all depends on his ability to hit the 15-footer and how badly he would get posted up. Because Hayes is an energy guy, I also think he'll be more valuable off the bench than Howard. For those of you who remember the 88-90 Pistons, I think Hayes would be a great change of pace guy, the way Rodman was for those old teams. He'd be a defense/rebounding beast that screws up the other team's game plan.

My opinion is that it's better to have your speed players come off the bench, because then it's easier to create mismatches. e.g. a good fastbreak lineup would be
Yao/Battier/TMac/James/Alston
Yao outlets. Battier, TMac, and James can all finish. Alston plays to his strength, which is ball-handling and running the break.

 

It doesn't undercut it at all unless you think we were better BECAUSE Howard was deactivated, as opposed to because the new acquisitions of Sura, James, Wesley, Barry, and Bowen began to click. Anyone who suggests Howard would have made that team worse just has a blinding agenda; he may not have made it better, but I hardly think he could have been worse than what we had in our rotation at the time.

 

I am afraid Howard will still get a lot of minutes, even if he is not starting next season.
Why? Simply for the sake of rebounding! Do you guys still remember our owesome rebounding in the season of 04-05? With a younger Howard and Bob sura helping out Yao and T-mac, our rebounding was among the top in the league. And that is one key that we got 50 wins.
Yes, Hayes is quite active and working hard. But he is just 6-6. And Battier is not that big at rebounding. After Stro left, we have to depend on the height of Howard unless we sign another PF.

 

Why? Howard just isn't that good. The combination of Padget, Weatherspoon, and Bowen brought more hustle, and were more efficient as well. It's perfectly possible that they just complimented the rest of the players better than Juwan Howard.

The Rockets don't exactly have a strong track record when Howard's been in the lineup, the last couple seasons. Who's being blind, here?

 

Whether Howard starts or not, I seen our best lineup generally having Yao, Battier and Tmac in the front line. If Battier can play 1/3rd of his minutes at the 4 on a team with an star big PF (Gasol), I see no reason why Battier can't get 2/3rds of his minutes at the 4 on a team with a superstar long 3 (Tmac).

Putting Battier at the 4 over Howard (or Hayes) makes our offensive MUCH superior. It makes us mobile and spreads shooters with 3 range all over the floor, it makes doubling Yao without paying for it super difficult. Defensively Battier will be better than Howard against most of the better teams 4s--guys like Marion, Diaw, Horry, Josh Howard, Dirk (remember undersized guys with quickness do better than slower 4s or 5s), Haslem, Walker, etc. But sure Ja Howard can pick up extra minutes against the few PFs you run into who would just overpower Battier (Brand, J Oneal, Duncan, Gasol--remember the last 3 increasingly HAVE to play the 5 because their teams have no viable centers).

So personally, I don't see a problem with our 4 spot with the minutes generally handed out to Battier (say 24 of them on average, he gets another 10-12 as Tmac's 3 backup), Howard (14) and Hayes (10--for the physical change of pace). I would use Deke sparingly in the regular season just in case he is needed in the playoffs and have Howard get a lot of back-up C minutes.

I think it is much more important to solidify the backcourt than add another forward. Say we add Mike James. We could go with James, Alston, Head (if Sura provides anythign even better) and resign Bogan and/or Wesley, but if we can find a slightly superior big SG to Bogans even better.

 

You can't be serious saying Howard is a better rebounder than Hayes. Please.

Here's a fun little factoid. Only one player in the history of the NBA averaged more than 10 rebounds per game in 15 straight seasons. Charles Barkley, 6'6 (on a good day).

 

BTW I think a team of Yao, Battier, Tmac, Big2 (Sura, Bogans, or a player superior to both) and Mike James/Head/Alston at the 1 would rebound just fine. Quickness and length spread throughout the lineup is important to reounding, just watch the Mavericks.

 

Barring some future acquisition, Yao, Battier & Tracy is clearly our best front line. JH knows he's declining; he hit his stride for maybe 4 games all last season. Two years ago, he was great the 2nd half of the season until he went down. I don't think pride or anything else will be an issue for him. JH's minutes will go down considerably and he will take it like a man, especially if Hayes improves like everyone seems to think he has.

I couldn't care less who starts. I care who gets minutes, who finishes and who makes plays in close games down the stretch.

 

Last season everybody belly moaned that Stro will be our starter. Wrong.

Only way Juwan isn't our starter beginning this season is if he gets traded.

 

Battier's rebounding is a little light for a PF, though decent for a SF.
A lineup of Yao/Battier/TMac/James/Rafer works if you want to go with a "new NBA" approach, i.e. use your PF as a 3pt shooter and set up a formation that allows more penetration. It's hard for me to tell whether this will work, since it puts a lot more pressure on TMac and Yao to rebound. Neither James nor Rafer are particularly good rebounders. This is overall a better lineup than one with either Howard or Hayes (unless Hayes manages to somehow explode), it's just that the lack of rebounding is a danger.