To everyone who has bashed Hayes and Battier all season, the last few games should make you realize their importance to this team. Hayes and Battier held their own against arguably the best forward tandem in the league (Jamison and Butler). They held them to under 30 percent shooting in a win verse Washington. Hayes grabs 13 rebounds against the Knicks and holds Zach Randolph in check, while Battier scores 6, grabs 5 boards, gets 5 blocks and has 5 assists. Battier has another 4 steals, 10 points, and 9 boards against Minn, and Hayes grabs 8 boards in 19 min. The stats dont fully show the value these guys have on making the Rox a good defensive team. More importantly and what people have to realize is these two guys make a total of about 7.5 millions bucks this year.(Battier 5.8, Hayes 1.75 million). Here are what some other teams are spending 7.5 million bucks or more for Rox - Mike James and Steve Francis (non rotation guys) Mavs - Eric Dampier Heat - Mark Blount and Smush Parker Wolves - Antoine Walker Sonics- Earl Watson and Robert Swift Nuggets - Eduardo Najera and Steven Hunter Knicks - Jerome James and Fred Jones Bucks - Bobbie Simmons Cavs - Damon Jones and Ira Newble Blazers - Raef Lafrentz and Darius Miles (20 million) Hawks - Speedy Claxton and Lorenzon Wright I know the sample size I listed is three games but Hayes and Battier are farily consistent on how they play. My point is the haters need to realize the value Battier and Hayes have on this team, especially in relation to what they are paid. Look on the list above and tell me if anyone would trade what Battier and Hayes give us for anyone on that list.
This is an astute post. A lot of the BBS would assemble the same kinds of teams they have in New York and Memphis. You have to have people do the dirty work to win in the NBA.
I noticed this quite often. A lot of Hayes and Battier haters often have no idea wtf they are talking about. They tend to focus on these two items: points scored and height. If hes not blocking 5 shots a game, it means hes not playing defense. If he can't shoot, that means our offense suffers (never mind second point chances and the motions created). If hes not athletic or tall, that means he can't play in the nba and he's a scrub.
I love Battier, and think Hayes is a monster on D... However, I think Scola adds more to the team, and opens up the low block for Yao. I would like to see Scola starting...... DD
If the other players take Scola under their wing and show him how the defense is supposed to run, then he will be a great defensive player too.
i don't hate these guys...it just seems like we could place a little more offense on the court to start our games
a lot of these people dont understand that HALF of the game is defense. HALF. all you hear is offense offense offense. battier had 5 blocks the other day. 5. blocks.
Bonzi and Brooks? I think that is enough spark, especially if you are not substituting all 5 starters... DD
There is no doubt Scola adds more to the team offensively and makes Yao's life easier on that end. I also think he will be the starting PF on this team at some point, but I dont think that time is right now. Let him continue to build minutes and figure out the defensive assignment. Landry too will get minutes at PF one day, but I think everyone is overreacting a bit to a good game against a terrible team during a bad blow out.
Brooks has shown flashes of brilliance but also very inconsistent play. Im not ready to say he can be consistently relied upon to be an offensive spark. Bonzi played a few great games then some horrible ones lately. Hopefully it was the injury but he has been a turnover machine. More importantly with Hayes and Battier on the bench, I think it cuts down on Brooks and Bonzi's playing time cuz Adelman will probably get them in the game first. Im assuming your starting lineup is Yao, Scola, Tmac, Head, Alston if you still have Bonzi and Brooks coming off the bench with Shane and Hayes. My question is who guards the other teams top perimeter player. Cant be Head, and shouldnt be Tmac.
IMO he is too mistake prone and a liability at times on defense to be next to Yao. His offensive game may open things up for Yao but to have Scola and Yao on the court at the same time would severely hamper our defense and probably have one or both guys in foul trouble. In time, I'm certain Scola will improve on that but right now I like Chuck playing next to Yao. That's one of those things that the casual fan (not saying you) does not notice. Chuck is everywhere and stops a lot of penetration due to his underrated quickness. I think he covers for Yao's slowness of foot.
Uh, yes they are good value, but you cite games against the Arenas-less Wizards, the Knicks, and the Timberwolves. Are you kidding me? They BETTER produce against those teams, or else we really have problems. Even though I mostly agree with you, you are pulling examples for your argument from the wrong pool. I want to see them produce against the Spurs, Suns, Celtics, Pistons, Mavericks, etc. (Not saying they can't/don't, just pointing out the flaw in your logic) Nov. 5 @ DAL - Battier/Hayes combine for 11 Pts, 9 Rebs, 2 Asts, 3 Blks, and 1 Stl (10 Fouls and 2 TOs) Nov. 6 vs SA - Combine for 16 Pts, 8 Rebs, 2 Asts, 0 Blks, 1 Stl (7 Fouls and 2 TOs) Nov. 16 @ SA - Combine for 18 Pts, 6 Rebs, 3 Asts, 0 Blks, 3 Stls (6 Fouls and 2 TOs) *Mostly Battier* Nov. 17 vs PHO - Combine for 12 Pts, 9 Rebs, 2 Asts, 0 Blks, 3 Stls (4 Fouls and 1 TO) *Mostly Battier* Nov. 21 vs DAL - Combine for 14 Pts, 15 Rebs, 4 Asts, 2 Blks, 1 Stl (3 Fouls and 1 TO) The rest of the games vs. PHO, BOS, DAL, DET, etc. are basically the same production. The production is solid, but neither players are really consistent actually. One night Battier will be up and Hayes will be down, or vice versa. Only thing is, Hayes never gives offensive production, therefore, I'd think the Rockets would be smarter to give Scola more minutes than Hayes. And given your Minnesota game citing, then why not give Landry time? Another problem is that we've lost most of those games versus those teams, not just the ones with T-Mac absent.
Well their so called HALF WAY helping the other team with their pathetic offensive showings. Dont you hear how shocked Worrell and Bullard/Drexler sound when Battier or Hayes makes an offensive move. Its down right shocking!
It's not just that Battier and Hayes do things that don't show up in the box score. It's that they do things other guys on our team don't do. If you don't score, usually somebody else will take up the slack. But if you don't dive for the loose ball, take the charge, make the fast/astute defensive rotation, tap the ball out for a restart, properly position yourself for the put-back, or move to the right place to be available for the easy 2, odds are that nobody else on this team will step in and do it. Sad, but true. If we had 3 more guys on the team who did these things, then yes, B & H would be expendable. But we don't.
I chose those games cuz they were the three most recent games and people were bashing both of them real hard up until they played well, then everyone shut up. Surely if they play poor against NO, then everyone will come back with a bunch of Battier is overrated and Hayes cant shoot free throws threads and forget the previous three games. You said Hayes never gives offensive production, which I agree with. But how can you then say he is not consistent. The Rockets dont expect Hayes to score, just defend, grab rebounds and hustle. He does that every game so I think consistency is the one thing the Rox can expect from Hayes' play. Also your point that they need to produce against the better teams is flawed. How many times does SA say we need Bruce Bowen and Brent Barry to come up big in order to beat Dallas or Phoenix. The Mavs dont need Desagan Diop and Devin Harris to be great in order to beat good teams. Your stars have to come up big in big games. For us to win in the playoffs this year, Yao and Tracy have to come up big, not Battier and Hayes.
What you say is very true and insightful. I often heard broadcasters commenting when both Yao and Tmac is on the bench, "Where are the scoring gonna come from?" But when both Battier and Hayes is on the bench, I don't recall broadcasters ever saying, " Who's gonna dive for loose balls? Who's gonna take charges?"
Agreed 100%. Great post. To add to this: if people just chalk what Battier and Hayes do to "effort" or "hustle," they would be mistaken. There are plenty of motivated guys out there-- millions of dollars in contracts are at stake. You'd think if it's as easy as just "trying." More guys would doing these things every single night. Look at, for example, Bonzi Wells. Don't tell me he doesn't have incentive to try hard every game in his contract year. But he doesn't do what Battier and Hayes do.
Are you saying that the hustle stuff is not important?? really?? tryint to argue that something matters or doesnt matter because of fan or broadcasters opinions is a mighty weak way to make an argument. I dont want my basketball people in the organization listening to fans or broadcasters, if they really knew more than the people actually coaching and scouting or playing in the NBA they would be working in the NBA. I love how people defend non-logical arguments by telling you what a majority of fans would think....like that matters at all. another thing to add to the list of stuff half the fanbase never pays attention to....watch very carefully the game video I just released, watch chuck adn shane on every play...ignore the ball....watch what they do and see how many times they are directly involved in the team steals, rebounds and defensive stops. then try to come back and tell me with a straight face that they do nothing to help the team win. Ill call you a liar. btw....home commentators are never surprised when Battier makes one, that is a straight out lie. They always talk about how shane needs to look for his shot more often. Now, chuck....that is true. but that isnt what the Rockets want of him, tho Im sure they wouldnt mind if he hit a few more of those nice backcut layins.
