Just got done watching the Knick game again, but this time I just isolated on Chuck Hayes while he was in the game. One thing he does is as soon as Yao gets the ball, he drops clear down the opposite block and drags his defender to the other side of the backboard to effectively prevent the double team on Yao from the other big man. Everytime his defender sluffs off, he goes straight to the rim. And as soon as the shot goes up, he is shuffling around the basket looking for space. He doesn't stand and watch the ball. He first looks for space to go to for rebounding position and then he looks for the ball. Likewise defensively, when the shot goes up, he is immediately looking for somebody to block off the basket. That's one of the reasons why Yao collected so many boards last night. A lot of times Chuckie is taking one of the bigs clear out of the rebounding picture and opening up the whole crease for Yao. A couple of other plays come to mind. One play he got isolated on Curry in the post. Curry turned for the shot and Hayes knocked it away with that little chop move he uses before Curry could even get it up. They called the foul but it sure looked good to me. The refs will have to start respecting that chop at some point. Most of the time when he knocks the ball out, it is a clean play. Another play was where he blocked Crawford's jumper. He had gotten rubbed off on Crawford earlier in the game and Crawford used the little juke moves to get a FT line jumper for a basket. Later in the game, Crawford once again is coming down the the floor with the ball looking at Hayes. He tries the jukes again and Hayes blocks the shot. Also, he is so quick on the defensive double teams and then getting back to his man. A couple times last night he doubles at the top and forces the ball out then got back down to the low block so quickly that it forced the Knicks to just let the clock expire or throw up a garbage shot. Just great help defense. Then on a couple of offensive possessions, one possession he gets the ball at the FT line left, he's looking for somebody to pass off to and his defender totally leaves him to double McGrady or whoever. Instead of taking the jumper, he pounds it right to the rim, stops on a dime and reverses a layup back over the left while his defender is scrambling to get back down. Not to mention the play where his defender leaves to double Yao with the ball, the instant the defneder turns his head to go after Yao, Chuckie slides right to the rim for the lay in. I only remember seeing one "bad" play on him where he is going inside and he decides to flip the ball up to Yao. Didn't get it up enough and the defender and collapsed into Yao and stole the ball. But even then, it was great thought process. If he'd thrown it a little sooner and a little higher, it would have been another 2 for Yao. The dude just seems so efficient out there. He's always in good position defensively and he always makes the smart, extremely high percentage move offensively. I don't know if last night's game was the result of Frye being so out of sync and terrible or the results of Hayes good play, but he sure looked like a primary difference maker and very contributory to our two huge runs to start the game and to start the 2nd half. And when NY was making their runs he was not out there. Now we've got Miami coming up. I always try to look at these things as the 4/5 combo matchups since typically teams interchange their C and PF so much. Obviously, Miami is going to run Shaq and Udonis out there against Yao and presumably Chuck then follow that up with Alonzo. So, I would think that Hayes and Udonis match up with each other. Udonis has got that 15 footer stroke and he also crashes the glass similar to what Hayes does. Should be fun to watch. But I'm also looking down the road to a team like the Lakers or Minnesota. Is Hayes going to be able to defend Odom? I would think against the Lakers that JVG would initially start with Battier on Kobe, and probably Hayes on Odom. Odom has that outside in game, where he starts out at the arc and either takes the jumper or penetrates to the rim. I would think this would cause Hayes problems, #1 because he is too short to defend the jumper without giving up the drive, #2 he seems ill equipped physically to be able to deal with a much taller player with ball handling skills at the rim. The reason I say Hayes instead of Battier on Odom is I can't see JVG starting the game and putting McGrady on Kobe or Odom. So if Hayes is starting then Odom should be his man. Does anybody think he can be effective against guys like Odom, or Garnett?
Yeah... there is a theory that is wrong and is believed by a lot people... which is a 3-pointer shooter PF can open-up Yao effectively... that is just not right.. cuz if that PF just stand there, his defender can SEMI-DOUBLE Yao, and put Yao in a dilemma about shoot it or pass it.. the kinda player really opens Yao up is a PF with really good mobility such as Hayes.. he is so good off the ball and be takes away his defender completely which doesnt allow him to semi-double Yao... which opens up Yao greatly
Would Hayes go from underrated to overrated? I'm slightl worried. Just do what you do best Chuckie and hopefully we won't raise our hopes too much.
anyone see the similiarity of haslem and chuck hayes? next thing hayes needs to work on is his midrange jumper.
when A player's greatness is Off-ball movement, Attitude, hustling, Tough-quick-defense, Rebounding, he CANNOT be overrated... cuz it is gonna be there every night..we r not expecting him to score a lot points or anything.. a player depend on his shooting touch and on-ball offense could be easily overrated.. cuz he would depend on this hot hands all the time
Nice post, jopatmc. For some reason, though, the part that stood out to me was the following highlighed sentence: Who rubbed him off on Crawford? I'll bet it's Head.
Nice initial analysis...very on point regarding Hayes...and I want to comment that if Hayes develops that 15 foot jumper from the elbow...it's over man cause this guy is very fundamentally sound coming from Kentucky. He does do the little things well and I know you all have noticed how much he's always around the ball. I do believe he would easily average a double double if he played more minutes per game. He's currently @ 6.0 ppg and 6.7 rbg in 20 minutes. Add 12 more minutes to those averages and he's @ 10.5 ppg and 11 rbg. His minutes are basically split between Kirk and Luther (both of them right @ 20-21 minutes per game). He comes out and the 2 (Mac) and 3 (Shane) slide up to the 3 and 4.
The theory is not wrong. I'd take a PF who can shoot 3s AND who can move without the ball over one who can only move. Moving without the ball can be taught. Having 3-pt shooting touch cannot be taught. That said, if I could only pick from 2 guys, one can only shoot, the other can move intelligently, I'd take the smart guy every day.
Hey. if the 3-pointing PF slashes under the basket right after Yao receives the ball, what we need his 3-pointing for? duh!! Yes, Moving without the ball can be taught, but great mobility and moving as good as Hayes CANNOT be taught =)
Height is overrated as far as defending Garnett and Odom goes. They can shoot over Hayes, but I'd take my chances with them shooting contested jumpers (even if it's contested by a shorter player). Chuck is short, but his standing reach is still 8'9''. His hand is still higher than Odom and Garnett's eyes when they shoot. Remember the "1 Contested 2 Pt J" thing posted on the practice gym wall under "How we play"? I'll live with Odom and Garnett shooting Js over Chuck as long as Chuck stays somewhat within the neighborhood when they are shooting (or at least within their peripheral vision, if they are jumping high... but that probably goes with all defenders you put on these two). Now, if they get hot with Chuck on them, there's always 6'9'' Battier to take over.
On Garnett, I think Hayes should play him tight out on the perimeter when he faces up. If he gets burned to the rim causing foul trouble for his teammates or himself, then he'll have to back off and make him shoot over the top. When Garnett has his back to the basket Hayes will just have to use his low center of gravity and not give up any ground and get a hand in his face challenging the shot as best he can. On Odom, Hayes will have to respect his driving ability a little more. So playing off of him at first to get a feel on whether Odom has his outside shot working that night will probably be the way to go. If Odom gets it going from the outside Hayes will have to body him up and force him to put the ball on the floor. You never know how it will play out, I mean Hayes could be a difficult matchup for those guys for whatever reason, you just never know.
Personally, after being at the two home games and watching him in person, I don't know why anyone should be worried about him guarding any player. He has under-rated strength and a low base to keep guys from easily backing him down and he has VERY under-rated quick feet. Guys like Odom, Garnett, etc are going to get their points, but they are going to have to work at it because he gets good defensive positioning, moves his feet extremely well and contests every shot. As for the offensive side of the ball, his aggressive movement without the ball has actually turned out to be just as or more effective at keeping the other big man from cheating down low on Yao. I wasn't too sure about him starting initailly but he has turned out to be a very good fit on both ends of the court and, maybe even more inportantly, brings a sense of intensity that this team really needs to start each game.
