I don't want to be the pessimist and beat the topic in the ground, but i still believe until the frontcourt logjam is cleared, this team will be in trouble. Of course winning cures all temporarily, but the problem always seem to come up. I'm like most people or posters on the board who believes depth is good, but i may also be in the minority that too much depth is bad. There is a difference in quality depth and quantity depth. Some teams like Sacremento,Detroit and Dallas to a certain extent have the quality depth, whereas the pure example of the latter is Portland and now maybe Indiana. In my opinion, quality depth is the depth in which the every player on the bench know their role, which is the bench. 1 maybe 2 players on that becch is capable of being a starter on your team or someone else's team. Those players on the bench are happy with the minutes they receive and will bring energy whether its for 1,10 or 20 minutes. Looking at Dallas,Sacramento, and Detroit they have this. Sac has Hedo(who already wants to start and thinks he deserves too) Clark , the other maybe starter , then after that , they have Pollard,Funderburke,Jackson, and the newly added Jones. Dallas has NVE,probaly the lone bench type starter, then they round out with Najera,Bradley,and whoever else. Detroit has Cliff Robinson,Atkins,Corliss,Okur and Barry, basically all bench players. The flip side of this coin is Portland with Anderson,Patterson,Daniels,Stoudemire or McInnis all on the bench and 3 of whom are starter quality. Indy is the other with Croshere,Mercer,and Bender all riding the bench. So now i ask, how should our bench look? Lets evaluate the bench. As we speak, the rockets bench will be comprised of Norris,Rice,Taylor or Griffin,Nachbar,Morris,Collier, and later in the season Cato. Norris is a bench player to back up Francis, Rice is the veteran "instant offense" as some may beleive he is.Taylor was injured so he shouldn't lose his position because of it. Nachbar or Morris is the future 3 man of the franchise. Collier is probably playing his last season in Houston and soon Cato will be a very expensive backup. Now the question is, now what? As good of a coach Rudy T has shown to be, can he manage the ego's of so many young players wanting to prove they belong in the nba? The biggest dillemma is whats going to happen if griifin is playing well during Taylors 5 game suspension? What will happen to Cato when Yao proves to be a beter player and Rudy is faced to start him? Will Kenny Thomas be happy playing under 30 mins in a contract yr?How many minutes does Taylor need to justify his contract? These are question that will linger throughout the season until they're resolved. I know some people may look at last yrs injuries and say that if would have had the depth like this yr then we could have made it through. I think if we like other teams have major injuries to our star players (Francis,Mobley,Griffin or Ming) then the season will be washed out anyway. I don't want to start a real gm trade accepted scenerio,but i don't think anyone will be traded this yr.
It's an interesting point but I'm not too worried. Kenny will get his playing time, Moochie knows his role, Cato prefers to be a backup, Morris is content just seeing the floor and Nachbar's a rookie coming from Europe where guys don't get much PT anyway. The only potential dilema I see is if Eddie continues to improve offensively and in man to man defense. If he does, hopefully, MoT might get a bit upset. Regardless, Rudy's forte is communication and making the troops happy.
i know the Grand FARTS organization has just been inflamed and is showing much flatuatery exuberance but i agree with lee if u're going to need to make a move because of cash, morale problems, roster space... do it now and do it sooner to get potential transaction space later... money or space otherwise
It sucks to be a Rocket fan right now. Our main problem is not knowing what to do with all this depth. The Rockets are going to be really deap this year and there will definatly be some unhappy players. I think the Rockets will make up their mind on signing KT next year depending on how happy they are with Nachbar's development through his first season. If he looks like the future SF then siyanara Kenny.
TRS, I agree with you. KT is going to be the key. Interestingly his fate will depend on how Boki gets it done specially after the All Star Break. I think the injury mania is already taking care of the depth issue by rotation. And in case we complete our injury quota for the year quickly, MoT's weed might resolve any balance issues on timing.
The thing is with Kenny Thomas is that he is a perfect bench player for 2 positions. Ideally Kenny would be the backup to the 3 and 4, Norris to francis,Torress not Francis to Mobley and Cato to Ming. Ideally that would be good for team chemistry and morale, but I just really wonder how the minutes will be distibuted. These are young guys who want to play as much as possible. If these were Micheal Curry or Jon Barry, veteran guys happy to make the team better and make contributions, it would be different. as far as trading players are concerned, its hard to showcase a player and get good value when the guy is playing 20 mins. Taylor can be showcased for trade , but what if Griffin plays too good to take out and Maurice minutes are down that low? How much can the Rockets get for a guy coming off a serious injury making 8mill per playing 20 mins a night? Thomas is in the same boat as far as showcasing. Thomas has a low salary, but is a hard nosed player that has gotten better every yr. How much can the Rockets get for him if he only plays about 20 mins a night? Questions will arise and will need to be answered in the coming weeks.
No worries.... We can sit back and chill. Let Rudy do his job and i'll do mine, studying for a mid-term at 2:30 AM sucks. Arghh I wish I had a problem with who to give minutes to instead of trying to produce a balance sheet. arghh sorry off topic.
The Portland problem was made worst by the characters and attitude of the players on that team. We have some good fellas on our. The need to withstand injuries is my overall passion and excitement for the depth that we have which I believe is quality depth. I cannot think of any reasonable scenario this team is not now equipped to handle. Regarding players being happy, I have been suggesting of some time now the whole concept of less minutes but more output per minute. Raise the intensity on both ends and all court. Run, Run, Run. Press, Press, Press. I have spoken about no player playing more that 30 mins except Mobes and Francis who should not average more than 32. I talked about the number of back to backs and our need to keep the same level of play, even using different starting lineups in those. So if we stick with the relatively slow game and operate at 75% then we could have discontent.
Don't forget that Portland's depth held a 16 pt lead with 10 minutes left for what would have led to a ring. And what proof do we really have that Turkoglu is less likely to be disgruntled than Kenny Thomas. A disgruntled Kenny Thomas is just a lame invention by Rockets fans trying to logically proof why we should listen to their trade scenario. "We need to trade Kenny for nothing but a 1st rounder NOW, because he'll bolt" Well, Turky has zero chance to start for the Kings anytime soon, too. So what? Being a disgruntled non-starter is not the way to get top dollar around the league. Being happy and content like Brian Grant on Portland was is the way to get it. imo, we do not have too much frontcourt depth until we survive a season without injuries hurthing us like they have for the past 3 years. If Kenny, Griffin and Mo play at or above expectations, then Cato is the odd man out. Very few pros will complain about not getting 38 mpg. These three can get 25 mpg easy. Nachbar and TMo can slowly work their way in as they should. If Nachbar explodes onto then scene, then that is a good problem to have. The thing about trades is that you will not find a taker for Cato (and why trade him); you will not find a taker for Rice; you will not find a taker for Maurice until next summer; and Kenny can, at best, deliver a future, protected 1st round pick. Kenny is sooooo much more valuable than a future pick (in a yr you can't control and a draft position you can only guess at), so you just keep him and rely on arguably best Player Coach in NBA history to keep everyone contributing.
I really don't see depth as a problem. Once the season gets going Start Ming at C Start Griffin at PF Start KT at SF Start Mobley at SG Start Francis at PG Bring MoTaylor in at PF, Give Ming a Rest and slide Griffin to the 5 (where he has been playing at lot in the preseason) Then next of the bench would be Rice and Moochie Put Moochie in at PG let Steve take the 2 or take a rest and put rice in at the SF slot. A second quarter lineup of C Griffin PF Taylor SF Rice SG Francis/Cat PG Moochie is much better than most teams would be puttin on the court and EGriffin would be playing C against the other teams backup which he should be able to handle. If you get Cato and Nachbar a little PT to spell others it should all work out. Judging from the preseason Rudy is going to run some crazy lineups out onto the court and take advantage of our newfound depth. "In Rudy I Trust"
Keep 'em all and play for awhile. Let's see what we have got... Who knows which players are going to develop the best chemistry and what combos are going to be best in certain situations and against certain teams unless they play together a while. Especially with a new 7'6" guy trying to fit in. Spacing and style of play will be big factors with Yao Ming. There is no guarantee that KT and MT and EG can fit in with Yao equally well. One or two may mesh much better. We need to find these things out over some time...
I am also of the opinion that depth can only help us and the biggest reason for this opinion is Rudy. Rudy has been in the position of managing strong-willed (Chuck) and greedy (Scottie) players before. I think he will have a much easier time this go-round as none of the players that will be competing heavily for minutes really approach the superstar level that Chuck and Scottie had. If Rudy can deal with locker room infighting between Chuck and Clyde, he can deal with these kids.
HP(F): The Portland collapse shows that depth takes you to the Finals, but doesn't win you championship. Star starters win championships. Same with the Kings last season. I think leebigez has a point about the difference between quality depth and quantity depth. I'm not so worried about the Center/PF logjam. Cato will be phased out. Griffin will be used extensively in both positions and Taylor will get lots of PT whether he starts or not. In fact, whoever (Griffin or Taylor) doesn't start at the 4 will have a great shot at winning the 6th man award. What worries me is the 3 spot. Specifically, Rice. I believe Rice is best coming off the bench for "instant offense" duties. But something about Rice tells me that he's gonna whine if he doesn't start when healthy. And he's gonna whine even more if his PT drop bellow 25 min. That attitude will have a very negative effect on the team. So, TRADE RICE! Arghhh, FARTS are comiiiiiiiinng!
No problem..any F.A.R.T. would know you are joking. Glen Rice is the burden the Rockets earned in the Shandon Anderson fiassco. Its something like a jail sentence..until his contract expires !!
I agree we have a logjam at the 4. Taylor, Griffin, and KT can all play but I think this will solve itself as the season rolls on. Anyone that follows the Rockets like we all do knows that the injury bug will soon show it's ugly face like it always seems to with our boys in PJ's and if it hit's the 4, we should still have 2 solid players at that position. Watching the preseason games when I can, I would say that Griffin needs lots o' PT this year. This could be a breakout year for him, especially on the defensive end. "Over?!?!? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?"
imo, all it shows you is that the biggest choke in the history of the NBA happened. That's all it shows you. 9 out of 10 times, the Laker's cannot make-up 16 points. It happens. That was Portland's series. further...Every 80s Lakers, Celtics, Philly and Pistons ring was won by the better bench. The bench does wins. The 80s proved it. The bench is always a good thing. Portland had no problems that first year. Their breakdown came after the first Pippen year. I think the point of good benches versus bad benches is a sexy way to describe Chemistry. It is very simple...you have chemistry or you don't. You let bad chemistry destroy you (the later Portland years), or you don't (Rudy dismissing Vernon Maxwell prior to the playoffs). declaring the Kenny will have problems with 25 mpg or Rice will have problems not starting is merely trying to be logical in some premature reasoning that Kenny and Rice will cause problems, while supposedly the team that we don't follow as closely will not have bench problems, unless we've already heard whining in the papers. Fact is: we've never heard Kenny or MoT or Griffin make any demands. And Rice seems more content after a year on the disabled list to accept minutes under 30.
I too am concerned about the logjam at the 4. Griffin provides everything the Rockets need at the 4 (shooting, rebounding, defense and shotblocking) and needs lots of PT to continue his development. I think he should be the starter with MoT and KT vying for backup minutes. But, I don't expect KT to accept being benched in favor of either guy. I remember how pissed KT was last season when Rudy still started Griffin when KT came back from injury. Rudy and KT said that stuff about not losing your job to injury, but I really think that KT got his job back to ease tensions despite the fact that Rudy seemed EG performed well enough to merit the starting spot and that EG was/is the future at the 4 position. This is what the TSN team report said on the matter: Of course, KT immediately had another great statistical game, but what matters is that the Rockets felt that KT wasn't willing to accept his true role on the team. Hopefully, this season, KT has a different attitude and is willing to accept that he may not be a starter on this team. Otherwise, KT will have to be traded not just to clear a logjam, but to preserve team chemistry.
