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Hate on Houston (3 draft picks in a row)

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JW86, Nov 23, 2022 at 4:12 AM.

  1. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    So over the last few months I've seen a lot of people, random people for the most part on Twitter, but even known national or maybe even local sports journalists (podcast poofers and such) who either come out with a very strong opinion of not wanting to see us get Wemby and or the #1 pick to a general softer opinion that it wouldn't be fair to get 3 draft picks in a row.

    Now as an outsider, a non-American living in Europe, I definitely see that the Houston Rockets gets a lot more hate or flack for whatever was done in the past than most NBA teams. Houston as a city somehow seems to trigger something too, maybe because it's one of the biggest cities without a major media influence that LA & NY in particular do have.

    I personally believe envy for being an attractive FA spot has something to do with it. There also are clear personal vendettas, like Charles Barkley's money owed from Leslie or Ben Simmons though no reason why OR against certain individuals like Harden and Morey, but that cannot explain why even Olajuwon is often overlooked in top-10 lists and the first one to be kicked out of a top 10/15/20 list for someone like Curry without blinking.

    Whatever the reason may be, for a team that was clearly the only one in recent who could've taken the Warriors at their peak outside of the Cavs, the respect has rarely been shown. It's almost like it's an open secret that you do not give Houston too much credit and in doing so would violate some (unwritten) understood agreement. I bet a lot of people are reveling in seeing Jabari Smith Jr struggle and oddly enough very few acknowledge they had him #1 now.

    So this is where I want to put my focus, Green last year and Jabari this year are easily put down and articles painting them in a negative light when struggling is evident. This is not necessarily Houston related as I've seen many big Twitter accounts like NBAcentral post stats of rookies over 5 or 10 games, national media putting a lot of pressure on high draft picks when they don't "pan out" from the get go. Look at Bol Bol, mocked and laughed at for years, now proving everybody wrong.

    Now the new fad is saying you'd love to see Wemby on any team at the bottom, but not Houston. Anyone but Houston. The reason? Well some have mentioned how bad we look and Wemby would get lost on a team with only young guys running iso ball. This is a legitimate argument, not gonna lie. If I were unbiased, I'd say Houston is not at the top of my list for getting Wemby. This is one reason, another would be seeing Garuba & Sengun thrive means Houston does not need Wemby as much as another team. Scoot would maybe make way more sense.

    The problem in general is that people don't really have a reason other then stating they'd hate to see it, not even hiding their hate. If fit was an issue, then Detroit makes no sense either. OKC definitely doesn't because they have Chet. Pelicans have Zion etc. So what seems to be particular for the Rockets, even if not expressed, is the possibility of having 3 top-3 picks in sequential years.

    Especially now that a report has come out that discussions were held about teams not allowed to have a top-3 pick for more than 2 years in a row. Houston is the only one who can do that right now so that definitely seems to contribute to painting us in a bad light. Granted, our play, lack of a system, iso ball heavy offense and Silas decisions do make it easy to dislike us. However, it's not like even with the best coach you could have this very young team in top 25-27 or even higher. Look at the Pistons or Magic who consensually look much better than us, are also bottom 5.

    Regarding the top-3 pick, I think people seem to forget the history as well. Here's a good look at who had the worst record, best odds and who actually got the #1 pick in the pre-2019 era where top 4 teams had 25% chance at getting the highest pick. As you can see, only 6 teams actually were the worst team so finishing last and with the highest odds, actually landed the #1 pick. This is important because us finishing dead last has no considerable advantage or even bottom 3 at all!

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sport...-lottery-history-no-1-overall-pick/101752858/

    We finished dead last in 2020-2021 and 2021-22 and we got the #2 and #3 pick. The 2nd worst Magic got the #1 last year and since 2019 (last 3 drafts) the 2nd to worst team actually got the #1 pick. And even if that is not guaranteed or even getting a top-3 pick when finishing bottom 3. Pistons last year were bumped to 5th as 3rd worst team by record.

    Even if you disregard this and want to make an argument about tanking, why does OKC get away with blatant tanking and Houston is somehow a scapegoat of whatever people see as wrong about tanking and the system? I really don't get that other then Presti being advertised as the smartest guy in the room, even after breaking up a dynasty by not wanting to pay Harden.

    So with all this being said, how you feel about this hate for Rockets potentially landing another top-3 pick? Of saying Wemby is not what we need / other teams provide a better fit given our system and roster? And how you feel about the media's portrayal of us right now as well as how fans perceive us and our players, reveling in seeing Jabari struggle this year and Green last year?
     
  2. Le$$

    Le$$ Member

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    I think you take a Gamble, when you restructure a roster. But trying to find that "Star" in the draft is a big gamble and doesn't always PaN out.

    Rockets do have a star in Green, just not a superstar. If this next draft gives them that "Star" to pair with Green, expect alot of the hate and negativity that all these rebuilding teams go threw to silence a bit. In the future they will be respected. Its just do time, and when this team has what everyone wants it another story. The league is always what have you done for me lately.

    These teams that are rebuilding don't have much to compete for just yet, but once the experience comes along they will be up there just like what happen to Memphis and Suns. They were down hill and hated at for most part back when Harden Had his team and playing great. Okc,Det, Rocs, Spurs, Orlando, etc.. they will be back in the competition once these regulars lose there stars, or come off there Hiatus peaks.
     
    DeBeards likes this.
  3. pmac

    pmac Contributing Member

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    The NBA talking heads will hate the Rockets until we win a championship "the right way". Meaning, we need to get a superstar that comes up big in nationally televised games and the playoffs and we need to defeat the team considered to be the current dynasty.

    National media doesn't respect anything that doesn't follow a script that they can write in their blogs and therefore don't respect anything in rockets history.

    The championship rockets teams didn't beat the Bulls in the playoffs, Harden/McGrady didn't look great in the playoffs, and Morey tried to challenge their wisdom on basketball.

    Give the media a good story to write and they'll be happy.
     
    majicdonjuan, topfive and BigShasta like this.
  4. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Twitter is losing its credibility by the day. You MUST pick and choose what subjective analysis you lend credence to. For example I believe the poster @Corrosion laid it out in another thread that statistically this team isnt ISO'ing as much as the narrative has grown to. I dont have the link to his research or the thought I remember reading it in passing and it resonates here so maybe he'll stop in and clarify. So the ugly aesthetic game this team plays now precedes with reputation. Subconscious bias is generated and then subjective opinion gets thrust into the ether. No big deal if you see it for what it is. You cant expect a massive extension of a team board to be objective. Cliques form that harbor the same thought(s) and you get the typical tug of wars. Houston sports fans in general know this city gets dumped on any chance it gets. No reason to really explain it other than "bigger" cities get insecure that a horse riding, cowboy hat wearing city of yokels would ever encroach on their pedestals. Its always been Houston vs Everyone so as a sports fan here you embrace that and enjoy being the heel.

    Jalen is filling out his frame. He's an electric player and as a young man coming into his own he will realize that he needs to impose his will if his team is going to have a chance. That killer instinct can be developed. Same thing with Jabari and honestly all of our team. Young men need time to reach their final forms in whatever profession or job you find yourself in. As a fanbase (and I'm SUPER guilty of this) most of us just had unrealistic expectations for what a rebuild entails. Its a messy proposition, but if everyone can just keep it together another year or two these doldrums will be rewarded.

    Wemby will transform whatever team he goes to that is just the fact. The hype he brings with him hasnt been seen since the Lebron or Yao days. The physical tools blended with that skill package is absurd. If we were to be lucky to land him he integrates immediately. He can play any frontcourt position. His skills as a playmaker, creator and finisher would compliment all our guys and he would single handedly fix the interior defense by himself.
     
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  5. KingSamJack

    KingSamJack Member

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    Because the media doesn't want to talk about Houston imagine if we become the next dynasty in the NBA they will be forced to say positive things about the franchise.
     
    Tfor3 and juanm34 like this.
  6. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    I havent heard any hate from the national podcasts. Must be some regional yahoos with a couple dozen listeners recording on iPhones.
    Frankly. I don’t care. If we get hate why’s rent the Pistons or Magic (who have both sucked for longer)
     
  7. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    Just remember than when we were winning and threatening for a championship a lot of national media jumped on the bandwagon. Not everyone; there was still some Houston hate and Harden hate, but fir the most part the narrative was that the rockets were a dangerous team to play.

    so what’s changed? We aren’t winning. In fact we are on track to be the worst team in the league for 3 years straight. Realistically that’s what happens when u rebuild. I’d also add that Wood and KPJ haven’t been a good look for a rebuilding Houston team. I’m not bashing KPJ; he’s by far the player that has made the most developmental progress and it seems like he’s controlling the immaturity, but I do think the last two years he and Wood fed into that “rockets are undisciplined” narrative.

    If Stone cant find a superstar after drafting in the top 3, say three yrs in a row, we deserve a little hate (and he deserves to be fired). I’d say it’s way too early to know if Green or Jabari will be superstars. Certainly I think we all wish Green was a little further along. Folks prognosticating Jabari’s early demise are just plain stupid. But u put the uncertainty around those two prospects with the fact that we are bottom of the barrel in wins and folks just like to pile on. It’s a mob mentality, it’s cool to kick a man when they are down. Talking heads need to have something spicy to say. It’s all bullshit.

    we just have to sit there and take it…until we start winning, and/or our young pups start looking like dogs. I will say that if we get to year 3 of Jalen looking like he does now (which I highly doubt), I will be very concerned. But I’m still optimistic about our talent. I like the guys we’ve drafted the last two years.
     
    #7 Aruba77, Nov 23, 2022 at 8:09 AM
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022 at 8:18 AM
  8. apollo33

    apollo33 Member
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    I don't think the "media conspiracy" cares about the Rockets anymore after Harden and Morey left. I think we are pretty much an after thought at this point compared to the rest of the league, just nothing that interesting about our team
     
  9. fryjol7

    fryjol7 Member

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    I think it may be true to some extent, but as always in good organizations, we have to look in the mirror first. Our owner has been reported to be not so well liked (Simmons on his podcast). Our GM was not from a known "tree", he was promoted from within the organization, he does not have a lot of basketball ties and has hired from the Twitter community himself. Our only proven link to the traditional community may be Silas and Lucas. Our roster is one of the youngest and on court product looks messy.

    It may be as simple as us not wanting to be traditional. With these results nothing is going to look really good until it starts working.
     
  10. Risingred

    Risingred Member

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    The reason Silas still has his job because the media simply ignore the Rockets. I'd rather they "hate" the Rockets as the op said. If you don't win games, nobody pays attention to you. Please stop being sensitive.
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  11. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    as someone that has lived in Detroit, Houston, LA and now Vegas... i dont believe Houston is disliked - it is usually simply viewed as irrelevant....

    Luv Ya Blue era Houston stood out - and got some attention...
     
  12. groovemachine

    groovemachine Member

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    As a Houston expatriate myself I wouldn’t say the city is seen as ‘irrelevant’, but more of just another city that someone only visits for business or family. Similar to Dallas, Philly, Cleveland, Minny…. There’s certainly no animosity toward the city or teams that many down there perceive… outside the Astros cheating scandal of course.
     
    kjayp likes this.
  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    Where in Europe, breh?:D
     
  14. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    You actually need an uber smart owner, manager and coach.
     
  15. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

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    Victor with France Market

    Jalen Green with Phillipine

    Yao Ming with China

    It is interesting where Victor will land
     
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  16. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    But...umm..all the teams in last place have been getting top picks last 3 years and we still haven't won the lottery so how is it unfair compared to them? I get the play style hate but that changes with a new coach and system. Silas would definitely exclusively have Wemby as KPj's lob threat and 3pt lamp post for kpj drive and kicks.
     
  17. Rockets34Legend

    Rockets34Legend Contributing Member

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    Having a top-5 pick is great, but have to get rid of Silas and KPJ first. They do not fit in the future plans for this team.

    Silas is ruining the development of Jalen and Bari.

    KPJ is not a PG. We need a PG that it's only role is to run the offense, dish the ball to scorers, and score when it's necessary.
     
    raining threes, hakeem94 and kjayp like this.
  18. Mathloom

    Mathloom Consumption is a waste of time.
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    A piece of advice.

    Scientifically and biologically speaking, if you tell yourself this is true, your brain will ignore any evidence that it's not true, and it will highlight any tiny slice of evidence that points to it being true. Your brain will create a catalog of evidence that's heavily skewed. That's a scientific fact. It's not a spiritual belief. Any neuroscientist would tell you.

    All the non-big market teams feel that this is going on. Is it plausible that the media hates on everyone except the big market teams?

    Now the bigger question. All the big market teams feel like there's more hatred towards them because they're big market teams. Is it plausible that the media hates everyone?

    The truth we know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that if you sh*t on a team's fans, they will show up like sheep. The media makes money when we show up. If they said controversial things about everyone in a cruel game of musical chairs, wouldn't the fans of all the teams feel like they are being hated on? Could the feeling of being hated on not transform into the feeling of being targeted? Is that not common in our lives?

    The media hates on everyone to bring the fans to the door and wants the big market teams to win the title because most of them want to live in those cities. If you understand the profit motive, you will understand why things appear the way they do. I don't think anyone is targeting the Rockets. We're not a huge market team and we haven't won a title in 20+ years. They hate on us like they hate on everyone, and the hate is more apparent to those who watch their team with a microscope, but the microscope won't show you what's happening in the macro world.
     
    #18 Mathloom, Nov 24, 2022 at 9:18 AM
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022 at 12:03 AM
  19. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    Point taken, it's easy to think this as my timeline is Houston and national media, so likely not seeing the hate for other bottom teams and their players. But I've yet to see people saying they would be disgusted if we got Wemby or they want to see Wemby on any other team besides the Rockets.

    Not unfair, simply we're the only team who's had a top 3 pick in the last 2 seasons and likely to get one again next year.

    @daywalker02 Netherlands ;)
     
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  20. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Better Detroit win 2x #1's and a #5, Orlando same. Only Houston has lost an all time great and gutted it's contender and not been rewarded with a lottery win. Cleveland was rewarded 3x #1 picks and more lottery picks for losing LeBron. No team has obviously tanked more than Philly and they were awarded 2x #1's and Embiid. OKC jumped us last year for #2 and had a #6 the year before BUT they already had an all star on their roster unlike us and that guy is now casually putting up 31,5 an 6 on high efficiency like a #1 pick. SA clearly made a very transparent move to tank for Wemby when trading for Murray and should be punished for it. NO already got their #1 pick reward in Zion + #2 pick Ingram reward for giving up AD.
    We're the only team who has had to lose a superstar and not been given a #1 pick outside of OKC but they got SGA and Giddey and Chet + their pick this year.

    WE ARE DUE.

    ...and if you're reading that no one wants Wemby in Houston, it's just because they want Wemby on their team obviously. They probably want Orlando to win because they are a farm team for the Lakers or NO to win with the Lakers pick because it would make for highlights seeing Wemby and Zion play together, and they'd be an instant true contender.

    Who cares what other fans want anyway?
     

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