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Has Yao regressed?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by deepblue, Dec 17, 2003.

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  1. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    Watching last night's game, I am starting to ask the question: has Yao regressed since last season?

    Sure he weights more and looks bigger than last year, but in many aspects, he is not as effective.

    I can remember last year, Yao was very quick to go up for a dunk when he got a chance, and often he would go up for an offensive rebound and dunk it. This year, after 20 games, I have seem yao dunk the ball maybe 3 times?

    One clear example last night was when yao had bumped Johnson off balance, last year's yao would go up for a quick dunk, instead he was so slow going up, Johnson was able to recover and block the shot.

    This would seem to point to he is not moving as quick, (he was never that quick). I see less and less quick moves from him, he looks much more mechanical, not playing with instinct.

    If the problem can't be corrected, maybe Rockets should think about trading Yao while he still has high value.
     
  2. vcchlw

    vcchlw Member

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    Is it about fatigue without an offseason rest?:rolleyes:
     
  3. stevel

    stevel Member

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    It could be fatigue, but I think it has more to do with his offseason weight gain. All weight gain is not created equal. Even if you gain the majority of your weight by adding lean body mass (LBM), it may still be as much a performance hinderance as additional body fat.

    There are functional and non-functional gains in LBM. Non-functional hypertrophy is basically gaining size in the proteins located in the muscle cell body (SR). These guys don't really do anything. Functional Hypertrophy is achieved by adding size to the contractile proteins, actin and myosin. These guys basically provide the horsepower to the muscle. To get even more in-depth you have frictional and elastic strength. Frictional strength is developed by lifting weights in a slow and controlled manner, essentially eliminating momentum from the movement. Elastic strength is improved by rapidly accelearting and deccelerating weight, such as pliometrics and and Olympic weight lifting.

    I think the Rockets, in an effort to improve Yao's size may have made him a tad slower by having him engage in too much bodybuilding style weight lifting. This can absolutely be corrected by changing his training protocols. I am fairly certain this will be addressed since his quickness has clearly diminished.
     
  4. GATER

    GATER Member

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    A further quote from trainer Chrstian Thibaudeau:

    "...non-functional hypertrophy refers to gains in muscle size that aren't associated with an improved capacity to produce force. That could either be due to hypertrophy of the non-contractile elements of the muscle structure (sarcoplasm, collagen, etc.) or an increase in fiber size that's excessive and leads to internal friction which reduces concentric force potential."


    I understand about 75% of what you and he are saying and my interpretation in plain English is that the current program has accounted for some (muscle) size gains but no explosiveness. I agree that altering the program (sets, reps, speed/range of movements) would be more beneficial.

    But a larger issue for me...

    Would we not expect Rockets' trainer Anthony Falsone to be aware of these conditions before hand? IOW, was the program intentionally designed for the results we see? IMO, it was although I do not know why.
     
  5. stevel

    stevel Member

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    Gater,

    If you like training, read Christian's stuff. He is an excellent coach, and he has some terrific ideas on training. I have never had the chance to meet him, but I have read most if not all of his articles - good stuff.

    I don't think Falsone designed Yao's program with this non-functional hypertrophy in mind. You could put an athlete like SF on the same program, and I doubt it would hinder his on the court performance at all. Every athlete is different, and Falsone is an excellent coach also. It could be a case where they tried this and it seems as if it may not be optimal for Yao. It can easily be correct by switching training methodics. I think that strength may be overemphasized in B-ball. B-ball is a very explosive sport in general and athletes have VERY limited amounts of time to apply force within game situations.
     
  6. Xenogears

    Xenogears Member

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    Yao hasn't regressed, but the quality of this bbs has regressed a ton with posts like these.
     
  7. bigballerj

    bigballerj Member

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    I don't think Yao has regressed but the fact that he plays ALL YEAR is not going to help him improve much because of fatigue isses.
     
  8. Xenogears

    Xenogears Member

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    Of course he hasn't regressed. His numbers are all up from last year, so in this delusional world that this thread starter lives in, that's a sign a regression. The Yao haters just need something to talk about, so come up with the most asanine threads.
     
  9. stevel

    stevel Member

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    I wouldn't say he regressed, and I am certainly not a Yao hater. He does look slower on the court this season, and as I said it could be fatigue. I personally think that he might need to adjust his training program.

    I have a hard time buying fatigue though. The guy is 23, and his ONLY job is to play ball. If he has a problem with fatigue then the team should look at his lifestyle as a whole. Things like is he eating enough, is he taking productive rest breaks (massages, etc...), possibly slowing his workout schedule.
     
  10. eman

    eman Member

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    I wish the Rockets would provide Yao with a comprehensive medical work-up. I'm worried he's anemic, has a cardiac problem, or something.
     
  11. xcharged

    xcharged Member

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    CHRON.COM
    http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2304241

    Too often he wears out quickly and is unable to get the rebounds and be the defensive presence the Rockets need. The Rockets would prefer that his fitness match his talent. But Wednesday's 30 minutes might have been an indication that if his time is reduced, Yao's production might increase.

    wow....what a freakin' genius.
     
  12. bottlerocket

    bottlerocket Member

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    I agree. In think he should not be 1st option but not be totally ignored in the offense but give SF the green light to attack the basket and get the opposing centers or PF in foul trouble. Yao does seem a step slower at times.
     
  13. GATER

    GATER Member

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    As was pointed out by this threads' originator, Yao doesn't appear to be performing his baseline spin move as quickly this season. Further, there appears to be a misconception in this thread about the definition of "regressing". Sure Yao's numbers are up...but his FG% and FT% are down. And IMO, up until the Cleveland game the mechanics of Yao's shots did not seem as smooth as last season. Too many "muscle control" factors to ignore. (Although I think fatigue is a little more of factor than you do...is there an endurance factor in non-functional hypertrophy vs functional hypertrophy?).

    I'm with you, in spite of the better numbers some aspects of Yao's game are not as good as they were last season. One additonal factor beyond bio-chemistry that I find hard to overlook is the mental aspect. IMO, there is some mental fatigue. Yao is an intelligent player, perhaps he is trying to pace himself (04 playoffs, 2004 Summer Olympics, 04-05 NBA season and playoffs before any possibility of true rest).
     
  14. stevel

    stevel Member

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    This is essentially what I said in another thread I started. I'd like for Yao to play in the high post. He is an excellent passer, good shooter, and the opposing center HAS to come out on him pulling the shotblocker away from the rim allowing CM and SF to attack the basket. Essentially for now almost run him as a point center (if there is such a thing). He can develop his low post skills in practice, and at certain times during games.

    It is easy to sit here and say Yao needs to be more aggressive and establish himself in the low block - much easier said then done. One thing to consider, he is so tall that if the opposing bigman beats him to a spot and gets low, it will be hard for Yao to dislodge him. Yao would have to get under a shorter guys center of gravity to move him. This is more diffcult then alot of people realize.
     
  15. ricerocket

    ricerocket Member

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    Could it be teams devised ways in the offseason to counter or at least make it more difficult for Yao while simultaneously the Rox "O" :rolleyes: is not letting Yao play within the flow of the game and he is "forcing" more and more?
     
  16. bottlerocket

    bottlerocket Member

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    With Yao’s ability to hit mid range jumper and passing abilities and the guards slashing abilities....I wonder if this team is better suited for the Triangle Offense.

    Yes I know that Phillip is not going to come here to coach but that offense works and Yao ability to see the whole floor. Almost like a point center.
     
  17. stevel

    stevel Member

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    With out a doubt defenses are more concerned with Yao this season, and our ball movement has been atrocious. I don't think all of his issues this season are tied to these factors.
     
  18. GATER

    GATER Member

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    We are way off-topic but....

    The most common Rockets offensive sets start with some form of two man game with 2 players strong side and 3 players weakside (PnR, post entry pass and passer clearing to weakside for Yao ISO or pass out for shot or re-post, 2 players strong and ball reversal to weakside as Yao fights thru the paint for better position). But....

    Watch very, very, very closely. The Rockets have one set which is based in the triangle. It usually is Mobley and Cato weakside (3 pt line and high post FT line extended respectively), Francis with the ball, Yao in the low block and JJ in the strongside corner of the 3 pt arc. The Rockets have had some success with this set but it has not been highly successful due to JJ's 3pt shooting slump (his defender can sag to the paint).

    In the past 5 games, I have also seen a new version of this with Yao, JJ and Cat strong side and JJ making the post entry pass or initiating the offense.

    The Spurs are a very good defensive team and the TWolves are above average so I suspect some of the newer, marginally successful sets got shoved to the back burner. Against the Spurs, even some of the successful sets got shoved to the back burner. ;)
     
  19. ihatehyena

    ihatehyena Member

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    Maybe most of his energy is lost in fighting for the low post position. That's why he regresses in dunking and defense end.
     
  20. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Yao has lost quickness with the weight gain. I don't need a trainer to tell me that.
     

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