Anyone notice all the layups the the Lakers have got the last 2 games since the T-Wolves started pressing? While watching these 2 games has anyone asked themselves, why don't the Rockets do this some? Watching these games really ,really shows how badly coached the Rockets are and as a whole. It also shoots a hole in the theory that if the Rockets press, it will be a layup drill. Most times, the press is used to disrupt the othr teams flow and pick up the pace of the game. Its not really used to get a bunch of to's. While Minny was playing this press, lets look at the personnel they had in the game. Hudson Francis Peeler Mobley Wally Posey Garnett Griffin Rasho Ming What they did was leave the inbounder unguarded and let have the guard face guard and Wally play over the top. With the T-Wolves lack of depth and the Rockets seemingly derth of depth, why couldn't we employ this strategy at times when the team was sluggish? This same startegy was used against the T-Wolves by the Sonics in the last week. What happened was one of the teams who turns the ball over the least, turned the ball over like 5 times in 7 possesions. Watching the playoffs really makes me realize how poorly coached this team is. Starting with phoenix trapping Duncan everytime to Minny full court trapping La to change the pace of the game.
Yeah and we are supposed to be a young and athletic team, aren't we? Our backcourt is supposed to be one of the most energetic and athletic in the league, isn't it?
It actually bugged me a lot that we were almost 2 players deep at every single position, but didn't run a convincing press. Ming/Cato Griffin/MoT Rice/Posey/T-Mo Mobley/Posey Francis/no one here, but Francis can do it alone
Even at times when Ming rest at his standard time, the coaching staff could have played Francis,Mobley,Posey,Griffin and Cato and press a little. I watched plenty of games when teams would pick the rocket guards up full court and turn francis 4,5 or 6 times and he would start the offense at 15 secs and we would wind up with a poor shot. With live,long bodies like Morris,Hawkins,Posey,and Cato at your disposal, why not ? Those long atheletes could have been handy against Utah which really only has 1 good ball handler in the starting lineup to take them out of their confort zone.
I've seen this years and years ago. I just don't know why people think Rudy is a good coach!!! You can not tell me this team is young or whatever. We have not had any innovation, variation, any scheme in our game plan, offense or defense for a long long time. Our team is always at a disadvantage. We won despite of Rudy not because of him.
Bad coaching.....been saying that all season. All you have to do is watch how good teams operate, and we look pretty pitiful. Disjointed, selfish, lost. A bunch of players, not a team. No changes - that's what has me depressed I got jumped a couple of months ago suggesting that Flip Saunders was a good coach. At least he gets the most out of the talent available to him. For Rox: whole < sum of the parts D R
From everything I have read about Rudy and the way he likes to play defenses it does not surprise me we do not press. Rudy does not like his defenses to "take chances" thus we have very low steals numbers. Pressing a team would fall into the category of "taking chances" and thus we do not do it. Rudy likes our defenses to play straight up and focus more on good man on defense and getting rebounds. Not a bad strategy but I do think this team could mix it up once in a while to keep the offensive off guard.
Minnesota runs a press because of Garnett. He gives you a lot of freedom to take risks. Rudy ran a press with Garnett, too. He planted him right at center court. I would call a press; you would run a press; our moms would call a press; basically, Garnett would insist any coach allow him to hawk the ball full court. I don't see how you can watch Minnesota's press then say, "hey, why can't we do that" without even acknowledging that Garnett is *the* most versatile defender in the NBA, if not in the entire history of the NBA--giving a nod to Mr Russell. Why not mention Boston's failed Rick Pitino full court press. There's nothing about a full court press that is going to make Francis and Griffin good, or smart, defenders. Further, it would expend too much energy out of Yao. Despite his 7'6 frame, he doesn't strike me as the ideal safety man in a press.
HeyBigPee, you're always 'splainin' to us about how Rudy doesn't use this strategy or that, because he's so damn smart that he knows ahead that our players couldn't run it . If Rudy is so smart, like you're always telling us, how come he isn't smart enough to figure out that our guys can't make that crap he's been running for ever since Francis got here work either?
Good point. But you know what? I've come to admit that my boy, Eddie Griffin, has bad lateral movement. And so does Yao. The thing that Griff DOES have is long arms and leaping quickness (height). But his lateral movement is bad. Posey's and Hawkings lateral movement is very quick! Thus, they give us DEFENSE! So, this "athletic" team we are supposed to have his hampered by two guards (Francis and Mobley) that have only recently started to play D, and Griff and Yao that really don't have lateral movement at all. In the past, Hakeem had enough lateral movement to erase a lof of mistakes that our guard did.
I was thinking the same thing Moe. HeyP, no one said that Rudy had to run the failed Rick Pitino full court press. Anyone with any sense know that you can't do it all the time or even 3/4 of the time, but with the disposable talent the rockets have, i can't see why not at all. I know Garnett is a very versitile defender, but if you notice, Garnett was on the other end of the court and Wally was playing over the top. If you can sit here and tell me Wally is quicker to the ball than posey, we have a problem. My thing is, if you or anyone watched the 90's Bulls when they had Ho Grant, they used to do what they call build the pressure. Of course no one will be mistaken for Jordan or Pippen, but they used to do it to disrupt the other teams offensive flow. They would start with token pressure past half court. Next they would push it up to about 3/4 court . Finally, they would be full court press, man to man. they did this with Bill Cartwright and Jofn Paxson in the lineup. No one ever said it was meant as a source of offense, just as a way to maybe get the team going and pick up the speed of the game. I stated earlier about the last game Minny played Seattle. I'm talking seattle with Ray Allen,Brent Barry,Radmonovich,Elden Campbell and Lewis. When the T_ wolves seemingly about to pull away, the Sonics put on a press. What happened was about 6 to's in 8 posssessions for a good ball handling team like T-wolves. The press and this teams lack of is another example of how slow this staff is to adjust. I guess with a lineup of Cato,Morris,Posey,Cat and Francis isn't atheletic enough to press during no time in the game?
I didn't defend Rudy here. I said that a full court press rarely works in the NBA, except in short bursts....and even then, it fails as much as it works. NBA dribblers are just too good. Certainly, the Minn press is more about Garnett than it is "great coaching." No disrespect to Flip, who definitely engineers a defense around Garnett's talents....much the same way Rudy got everyone to play D around Hakeem....unlike previous Rockets coaches. In other threads, when I challenge someone trying to copy another team's strategy onto the Rockets, what I'm saying is really no different than how others balk at the phenomenon that Will pointed out regarding Opponent Envy threads mentioning "Shouldn't we get this guy" just after we play them. This is Playoff Envy season, with the inevitable threads regarding, "Why can't we do that. It must be the coach's fault." Oh really, despite the fact everyone agrees our team is pretty slow on bball decision making. Opponent Envy is about greener pastures, right? It isn't that simple, and certainly this is as true regarding envy of the Kings offense working here as people drooling over the elusive Kevin Garnett-popeye trade. In reality though, my belief is about we don't know anything about practices. Where are the practice "scoops." I never assume Rudy doesn't try things in practice. There is a lot of evidence that he indeed does...such as preseason plays, 1st quarter plays, Rudy quotes, Boylen yelling "pick for the picker" etc. And the biggest proof of all, Francis and Mobley just aren't that bright. Rudy is a coach who believes busted plays teach you nothing. Many of us (me included) have more patience for installing more complicated offense, despite their natural tendency to produce many busted plays along a learning curve towards improvement. Rudy disagrees with us. He believes that you must prove to him in practice that you can do something, before he'll bring it into a real game at significant numbers. I can buy that. It's a reasonable philosophy, no?
I think you're as blind as rudy is. I've seen Earl Boykins do a 1 man press on Francis and totally disrupt the entire offense. I remember teams pressing the Rockets or trap Francis and he either turn it over or starts the offense so late that the team gets a bad shot. It doesn't matter if you can dribble or not as much as it is making the other team unconfortable. I'm sure you have watched the way Phoenix has played SA. What Pohenix has done is used their "ATHELETES" to disrupt the entire offense and make someone ohter than Dunacn beat them. Everytime Dunca got the ball, the trap hard and make him give it up. Are they taking a chance? Probably about 50-50. As a coach would you rather have duncan shooting 8-10 feet from the basket or Parker and Ginobili 24 ft away? No one ever said it would or should be a full time thing, but on the avg how many teams have more than 1 adequate ball handler, but thats the entire point. The press is suppose to take the ball out of the hands of the natural ball handler and into the hands of the guy not used to handling the ball. Last night the lakers committed 18 to's but gave up 24 pts off of those. How many of those were the result of Horry,Fox or someone like that mishandling the ball. If its one that that stood out in the Rockets losses this yr were the pts off to's. To's are bad enough, but when they're made in the backcourt or slightly past half court and the other team scores off of them , its double trouble. I know we can go on and on about this, but the fact is the rockets had the players to put at last token pressure to disrupt teams offense and didn't. Whether anyone wants to blame this or that, I don'tcare , but its clear watching these playoffs and with the adjustment some of the "underdog" coaches have made, that the Rockets in most cases were just out coached.
You cannot underestimate the effect Garnett has on a full-court press whether he plays the center of the court or back. A full court press is about being aggressive. For every anticipation pick that anyone like Wally can get, there is more times the pick fails, and off they go with numbers. The measurement of the full court press is not only about turnovers, but how many easy buckets you give up by being too aggressive. Garnett allows you to be aggressive, because his presence scares the offense into not trying long passes, or nullifying them, so his full court press is more effective. I don't think this is just theory, like your side of the argument is. You are just saying theoretically that if one team can do it, then any quick team can do it.
OK, I'm blind. Fine leebigez. btw: if you think Francis can do a one-man press like Boykins, then you need a white cane more than me.
This was one of the questions at the half during one of the games. Calvin said it's because Steve and Cat already spend 40mpg playing basketball, and that it would be too much for the two if they had to press, or something close to that...
If none of our guards can even make the other teams guards turn once or twice, then we're in worse shape than we think. What i'm saying is on those listless night like the rockets have had this season, instead of trying to pick up the pace of the game, the coaching staff just let them stay in this lull. Waht normally happened was by the 3rd qt after they were dwon by who knows how many, the defense would pick up and they would battle back. Reasoning would tell me , why not force the issue a little. Just like last night against Minny press, after the lakers saw how far down they were, they put the press back on Minny and made them unconfortable. Where was thier Garnett. If you tell me Horry has the same quickness and disruptive attitude as Garnett, then we will agree to disagree. Another team that does it is Phoenix. they'll put outlaw,Marion,Marbury,Penny and Amare out there and trap everything at the half court. Are we going to talk about the Marion effect now?
Thats why Hawkins is on the bench as well as Moochie. We're opening up a whole can of worms here. Cuttino is not good enough to beplaying the 2nd most minutes in the league.I'll save that for another day though.
