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Harden is not uncoachable - Harden is uncoached

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rocket River, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    Harden is one of the easiest superstars to game plan against in the playoffs, because 2 of his weapons are very well known, there are no real surprises with him.

    Going to the line, looking for fouls and 3 pointers off step backs or just 3 pointers. Then the occasional lob to Capela and some floaters.

    Gets tired in the 4th sometimes, and when his 3 pters are off, will likely begin to walk it up, keep on chucking.

    Dribble, dribble, run into a crowd of players before he can make the pass to the corner or wing areas.

    Double team him at the halfcourt line at times, deny him the ball, clog the lane when he is driving, try to not foul him when he baits you for a 4pt play.

    The Sky Hook and Dream Shake cannot shoot you out of games, the Step Back can!

    You can't overuse the Skyhook or the Dreamshake because those post moves mostly are used under circumstances, not all times.
     
    #41 daywalker02, Jan 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  2. vjohnson

    vjohnson Member

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    Ha he is the most productive because he gets the most shots most of the time and there have been times where Gordon has been hit and harden just stops passing to him to get himself going. I don’t want to hate on harden but we have changed players l, coaches, and now owners and it’s the same story. In your eyes the player can do no wrong obviously so not point in arguing with you about it
     
  3. gotsis

    gotsis Member

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    Agreed, spot on. Would love another elite coach, but don't think anyone is available. And even if they were, it's really hard to change a three year identity mid season, that just won't happen. So the only reason they should fire MDA is if he has lost the players confidence and just by having a new voice guys will be more motivated, if that's not the case, the best option is to ride this out and think os a substitute in the offseason.
     
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  4. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    I'm not so sure about this one, I tend to agree with whoever says Harden might have more power than we assume and with his numbers being up there with the elite of the elite, it might be situation where nobody can tell him what to do.

    Just look at what MDA said in his press conference afterwards. That he could Harden not to shoot those shots, in other words, he doesn't. Now you seriously cannot tell me any coach of a star player would tell him at least to understand when to take a shot, look for other guys etc, unless that guy is not open to feedback.

    It might be a situation where MDA reinforced the status of Harden by giving him free reign from the start, but also he might have felt early on that the power dynamic between Harden and Morey, ownership is intricate and MDA is no fool; he knows what happened with McHale and knows this can happen to him as well.

    Hell, it might already be the writing on the wall for him and he knows it. Maybe that's why it seems MDA doesn't care. Aside from this, in case you need more convincing that this might be the case, remember the footage of Tucker in the locker room?

    Tucker said something along the lines of "come on fellas, we cannot just stand around / not get back" and clearly was talking about or to Harden as he also clearly stated "no disrespect." I really think guys have to walk on egg shells around Harden at times and you have to watch out about disrespecting him.

    Lastly, remember how Ariza supposedly said that Harden is like a diva and treated differently from other teammates. Don't know who reported it but it popped up in a thread recently again and shouldn't surprise anyone.

    To sum up, I definitely think there's something to this and how Harden's ego is through the roof right now and not surprisingly has gotten to his head. I mean, when you're doing stuff that only you and Wilt have done, then it's only natural to let that get to you. Anyone would. However, he has to mature and learn that it's beyond numbers now.

    A lot of sports talk is actually about this very subject, that they would like to see Harden drop to about 30-32 and Russ get up to about 28-30 rather than 22-26 for WB and 36-40 for Harden. Well, Russ has been averaging 29-30 PPG and while it's not a dynamic shift per se, Harden has averaged less and is struggling to get his numbers while Westbrook is getting his.

    We saw it last night, Westbrook came through for us time and time again, but still Harden felt the need to ice the game by himself. That was 100% and pure EGO. I have no doubt if he would be honest with himself, he would acknowledge his ego got the best of him there. He wanted to win the game. Wanted to prove for himself he could hit that step back.

    That's all fine in a vacuum, but it's about winning and not that Harden didn't want to win or put his numbers over winning, but he did struggle with putting his ego aside. Now, I am sure Harden and Westbrook can coincide and Westbrook averaging 29-30 should not necessarily mean a huge drop in ppg for Harden. If he hits a few threes last night, he's right on track. However, Harden must recognise his ego and keep it in check.

    As long as Harden doesn't mature and lets numbers get to his head, no coach will be able to tell him differently. It's about his own maturation process and Westbrook can definitely help in that department. A championship pedigree coach could also, on a level that MDA just cannot since he hasn't won one.

    A coach like Cassell can tell him about sacrifice, that Olajuwon started to win once he started to trust teammates more, the team over individual, yet having the ball go through him and carrying the team is still largely on his shoulders. What it means to take a mid-range shot when the three isn't falling, what Clutch City means after going through Choke City.

    Just my two cents.
     
    Mr Chuck Norris, pahiyas, HP3 and 6 others like this.
  5. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    He is uncoachable at this point in his career. He has been enabled. He has been given they keys

    This idea "Yeah, we're gonna get a coach in here & hold Harden accountable! Yeah, bench him when he's off or keeps chucking or doesn't play defense!"
    This idea "Yeah, we're gonna move Harden off the ball more and get him moving!"

    [​IMG]

    Star Players run the league, not coaches.
    Harden may not pick the next coach but he will be Harden approved.
     
    blahblehblah, LabMouse, JW86 and 3 others like this.
  6. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    DanAndToni not saying or doing anything - when he is in a Lame Duck year and don't give a ****
    is because he fears Harden's association with ownership? He is not doing any and everything to save/audition for his next job?

    Does anyone legit think if in a time out with 3 minutes to go . . .
    DanAndToni says "Guys drive drive drive . . . beat their asses inside. .. Just keep driving .. . only use 3s if we late in the clock"
    That Harden would have said .. . f*ck you .. . I'm shooting a 3 with 18 seconds on the clock!!

    Who here did not want McHale gone? Did we or Did we not MERCILESSLY Malign "Milk Hair" and hoped he was gone?

    Rocket River
     
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  7. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    I'm sorry but why are we giving most the blame to Morey and/or Dantoni?

    Sure, they may have enabled Harden. Dantoni (and before McHale) for not calling him out for playing defense or being locked in. Morey for not realizing that Harden would interpret the stats in a way that underscores his narrative with the "the most efficient play is for me to iso, so why wouldn't I do that" argument and his lack of trust he has seemingly had in most of his teammates.

    But Harden deserves most of the criticism not recognizing his weaknesses in demeanor, leadership, taking constructive criticism, and and being open to adjusting a playing style when it hasn't completely worked. Being a true NBA superstar requires becoming, to some extent, an all-rounded player with limited glaring weaknesses. Not trying to be utterly dominant in just a few aspects and letting everything else fall away. That is Harden's glaring mistake.

    We keep trying to give the most blame to others because we know we cannot get rid of Harden, and trying to find some other thing to change for the sake of change.
     
  8. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    So if we had Eric Gordan as a star and he had the same volume we would make the playoffs every year the and wcfs twice? You think Eric Gordon is better than James harden? Thank you for proving my point btw. Clutchfans is turning into one of the dumbest forums around because of people like you.
     
  9. blahblehblah

    blahblehblah Member

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    Mda not saying anything to harden/team aside from the usual, gotta play harder, attack, etc is because he knows he has approximately zero leverage/power as a lame duck coach. The players/organization has tuned him out.

    The players don't need to respond with f*** u for us to know they aren't listening. You think harden isn't smart enough to know not to shoot more step back contested threes when he is obviously off? Yet he does it anyways. In fact he's done it 4 times this year alone missing 12+ a game when he's only done that once the year before.

    The nba is a players league. Every superstar has the ultimate power over the team/coach. If the superstar wants to be coached, he'll listen (like Lebron with Lue, Curry with Kerr/Jackson). If the superstar doesn't want to be coached, he'll simply do whatever the f*** he wants ( like Lebron with Brown/Blatt/Walton or Harden with Mchale, Shaq/SVG, Kobe/MDA, etc etc etc)
     
  10. realonemo

    realonemo Member

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    Am I wrong for not liking his game anymore. I did not feel like this up until the last couple years. He's just boring af. The slow dribbling up the court everytime does not help.
     
  11. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    well this is a lie.
     
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  12. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    You . . .you . . not "us"

    Rocket River
     
  13. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    What is a lie?
     
  14. SemisolidSnake

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    I think the title is spot on.

    James may be an offensive monster, but he's still human, and he will have bad runs and off nights and get frustrated and he needs someone backing him up to help him function in spite of that. That's exactly what a coach is supposed to do. MDA has ceded all the responsibility to Harden to make anything happen but has still kept the power to control all the lineups and rotations. That's basically the worst scenario possible in any employment situation: where it's your job to manage other people and guarantee output, but you have no real power and your boss meddles in your affairs and controls the personnel you have to work with. It doesn't surprise me one bit that Harden just pulls into himself and tries to do everything alone at times. The fact that he can a lot of times actually do it shows how remarkable he is. But he shouldn't be in that situation.

    I think James would probably welcome some coaching. He's always trying to improve. I think he'd welcome some conscientiousness support even more. I don't think he needs a hardass for a coach. He probably doesn't need much in the way of Xs and Os and better technique coaching. His teammates sure do, and the team as a whole does, and that would help Harden immensely. He needs someone that knows how to distribute a load in the right way so it doesn't all fall on him. Really, he just needs someone to have his back. MDA's just being that stereotypical corporate manager we all hate, so he definitely doesn't fit the bill.
     
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  15. vjohnson

    vjohnson Member

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    Like I said no point in trying to argue with you lol I’m just saying every night it doesn’t have to be harden to score all the points but he makes it seem like he needs to be the one to get all the points. I don’t think I have ever seen a super star go 2-17 from three that’s just ridiculous but hey I regress. I’m not saying he isn’t a great player I’m saying he seems like he can do no wrong. Hell the teams problem is defense and intensity and he gives you neither. Always arguing with the refs and leaving the team to play 4 on 5
     
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  16. Sanctity

    Sanctity Member

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    It costs money to fire and get a new coach. Yet it still costs money when the coach quits to find and get a new coach....
     
  17. mike2k132

    mike2k132 Member

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    have u ever played a game of basketball?

    so you trlling me someone has to tell you if ypu dont have the ball you should move around lmao. come on guy.

    thats a pro player, no.coach should have to tell him to move...to try on defense. to impower your supporting cast. all money aint good money u heard that before. just cause u can iso all the time doesnt mean you should. thats all im saying.


    harden game shouldnt only be iso. n thats what is is right now.
     
  18. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Lol NBA coaches would disagree with you. Utah's Coach lost them two whole games trying to game plan against Harden in the playoffs.
     
  19. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    I agreed with some of the things you said... but this...has got to stop, at least look at College coaches guys...sheesh. Yall just bring up a name and magically think it will work.
     
  20. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    We need a Brad Stevens type coach that believes in ball movement and playing defense at a high level. Harden has to change his game from one on one to movement without the ball and shooting off the pass and not dribble. We also must make everyone commit to staying in front of their man and forcing them to shoot over the top, which puts the %'s in our favor...
     
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