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Harden deserves criticism but let's not forget

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tinman, Dec 30, 2015.

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The Harden ERA is significantly better than

  1. The Tracy McGrady "it's on me" era

    35 vote(s)
    32.1%
  2. The Steve Francis "superbowl" era

    62 vote(s)
    56.9%
  3. The Yao Ming "eat the head" era

    12 vote(s)
    11.0%
  1. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Member

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    I don't think anyone but shortsighted fans are calling for Harden to go.

    But damn, man, he needs to understand that there's a lot of talent on this team besides himself. We are not going to roll over and die if he's not playing 40 minutes for us and handling the ball most possessions.

    If we sit him a bit and show him that we are still competitive without him, maybe he will learn to trust his teammates and play off the ball more, something most Clutchfans can agree would be for this team's benefit.

    That or we're just tired of seeing so many braindead turnovers, of which James is the king for this team.
     
  2. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Dirk was never a defender, the team and Cuban knew that from the beginning and they went with it.

    Dirk's talent is unique but he wasn't the most valuable player when he won the ship so it can be done without having the best of the best.

    Yet shooting has become so much more important in this era and the big man spot is one spot that promises a lot of money and status you would not believe it decades ago.

    Harden can be part of a championship team but probably not as the No 1 guy, he is not mature, not understanding, his talent level is way overrated last year, some fundamentals are missing, he is not a complete player.

    Is he way better than the 6th man in OKC? Yep but it is not helping us atm
     
  3. aelliott

    aelliott Member

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    You have many posts about needing to be a two way player and yet you include Barkley? One of the all-time historically bad defenders? Way to stay consistent.
     
    #83 aelliott, Dec 30, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
  4. tinman

    tinman Member
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    Harden stays healthy, he drives to the hoop and gets more fouls called than tmac. Plus, I trust Harden jacking up 3s more than tmac.

    You are looking at Tmac's talent and size vs his actual results. Actual results DO MATTER. Experience DOES MATTER. Hakeem did mention about winning playoff series did improve chemistry and confidence of the entire team.

    Having a star that you KNOW could lead a team far is much greater than having a star you know has great talent.

    It's LeBron vs Carmelo.

    If it was Tmac vs Robert Horry in a playoff game situation, I'd pick Horry to shoot the ball 100% of the time, because I know he's done it before .

    who do you want to handle the ball in the last minutes of the game? Jeremy Lin? Hell to the No. Sam Cassell, Kenny Smith? Absolutely.
     
  5. Aleron

    Aleron Member

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    Wilkins was a worse defender than Barkley.... lol
     
  6. tinman

    tinman Member
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    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/j1BfmGjuUKY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  7. kyle7758521

    kyle7758521 Member

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    you mean JH is not there yet for comparison to SF and T-Mac?

    or you mean JH is god level that the other guys had no match?
     
  8. kyle7758521

    kyle7758521 Member

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    are you telling me that James Harden, as a Rocket, is better than Tracy McGrady?:eek::eek:
     
  9. tinman

    tinman Member
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    Yes and I need to tell you that there's water in the ocean and air in the sky.
     
  10. kyle7758521

    kyle7758521 Member

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    tinman, actually i made a wrong quote in my last thread. I was intending to quote from another person, not your thread. But it happend, anyway.

    and, thanks for telling me the truth of natural science. :eek::eek:

    BUT i still don't agree with you, that Harden is already better than Tracy McGrady.
     
  11. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    See there are things Harden can never be better at than Tracy and he has less athleticism, explosion, length and so on.

    But we acknowledge the things he does better than Tmac which is not a lot but important to the McHale teams (durability, eurostep, efficiency driving to the basket, flopping, stirring the pot)

    Both were skilled enough but not really vocal leaders or leaders by example.

    Harden's role players played better during the playoffs that is for sure.

    Mac had a bigger mouth than James and he regularly talked to the media.

    Harden is more a sneaky b*stard that makes the same comments again but does not change anything.

    Both did quit on Defense but Mac's alibi is that he was injured
     
  12. oogie boogie

    oogie boogie Member

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    Not every player has the same path.

    KG took years to make it to the WCF. Years of first round exits. Finally a champ in 08.

    Dirk got a taste in 06 and thought he was going to win it in 07. He was 4 years behind in actuality.

    Kobe got paired with an amazing player when he was young. It took him years to get back to promise land.

    LeBron had to become the most hated man in sports for his era, and let down his home state of Ohio to win one.

    Nash fought but he could never get past one stupid team.

    Iverson fought as well. He fought his heart out. It wasn't enough.

    Barkley was a damn good player, but he wasn't the best.

    And the best? Before Jordan became the best he went through his fair share of struggles. It wasn't easy.

    Point is. Every one has their own path. No one player is the same. Some make it and others dont.

    Harden already has an unique path of his own. One that hasn't finishes yet. From destined dynasty to who knows if he'll ever win? We have 3 seasons at least with Harden.

    I am willing to go through this ride with him as our guy. Win or lose Im taking chance. As we learn, so will he. I believe in him. We have to.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. Raven

    Raven Member

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    So who is the savior? Durant? Why would he join this mess? If Durant wants to share the ball, he'll stay in OK. If he wants to be the man, he'll go where he is the undisputed number one option, which most certainly wouldn't be here. Durant probably ends up in LA, assuming he believes Kobe is gone for good, of which I have my doubts.
     
  14. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    So do you think Kirby's ghost will haunt that LA franchise forever?
     
  15. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    What is Francis, McGrady, and Harden's biggest problem...

    ... zero leadership
     
  16. don grahamleone

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    If only we had the internet when Hakeem "didn't have it". Having a good team around you and the right team around you are two different things. Having a good coach and the right coach, same thing. To me, you keep rolling the dice on Harden because there aren't many talents in the league like him. Hell, LeBron just has a few titles. Winning requires all cylinders, not just one.

    The right coach and the right players surrounding Harden will bring out an even more complete player. He's not the type you give up on.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. sealclubber1016

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    I was gonna post something similar. Anybody who is wanting to give up on Harden right now is very shortsighted to the point of making me question just how much I should ever value their opinion.

    He is not playing up to his capabilities this year, this is inarguable. But he is coming off an MVP caliber year, leading us farther than we've gone in 2 decades in a stacked conference. Talents of his magnitude don't grow on trees. And before I hear another Melo comparison, Melo has never had the impact on the game beyond scoring the way Harden does.

    We need to do everything we can to put him in a great situation before we pull the ripcord, and I don't think we've come close to doing that yet. And of course a lot of his problems are all about him needing to consistently put his best foot forward, which he most certainly hasn't done.
     
  18. swyyyguy

    swyyyguy Member

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    results? what has harden won? :confused:
     
  19. Shark44

    Shark44 71er
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    It's hard to not agree with this. Harden had some moments last year that were bad, but given his volume of touches that's going to happen. However, this year he seems to be deferring to others in crunch time.

    As our star he's the guy that has to take the big shot and not pass it to Ariza or Bev with seconds remaining.

    Harden seems conflicted and his situational awareness off kilter. Maybe his personal life is out a whack (Khloe dump) and his head his messed up.

    Personally, I still believe in him. He's got the skills and if he had the right influence he could get back in the saddle again. That's why I'd love for Sam Cassell to be our next coach, I think he could help Harden to harness his skills and reach his true potential.
     
  20. Junkyard Dog

    Junkyard Dog Member

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    I disagree. Francis was a leader before JVG, and IMHO the best leader out of those 3. I will say I believe Tmac was a better 2-way player in his prime than what we have seen from Harden. What Harden and McGrady have in common is that both took/take nights off. As far as offensive brilliance I would rank Harden first due to his efficiency and Francis last. In terms of all around talent I would rank Tmac slightly above Harden and Francis. The only reason Stevie is in this conversation (at least to me) is because he, more often than not, left EVERYTHING out on the court. Which clearly the other two had/have problems with.
     
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