While I think it's possible from what Oeilpere and others have said that Houston will trade for Lafrentz, please look at this post more as an attempt to find out where people stand on Hakeem and why. How much is loyalty and sentiment? How much is your desire basketball success? I understand the win-now argument. I don't really buy it, since no-championship team since Magic Johnson's Lakers has won the Title with a young player being their star... but it still makes some sense to me. So, if you were CD and were offered the following deal, would you take it if Hakeem told you he was willing to resign and didn't care if he was traded or kept?: Houston gets: Raef Lafrentz Denver gets: Kenny Thomas + Ind and Hou's #1's Indiana gets: Hakeem Olajuwon Don't worry about whether any of the other teams would actually do it; I just typed up the first remotely-realistic deal possible. But instead, what do you think about Houston giving up Hakeem for a younger upgrade? LaFrenz, imo, is pretty obviously slightly better than Hakeem. In 5 more minutes, he averaged slightly more pts, slightly more rebounds, more blocks, but fewer steals. On a per minute basis, Hakeem still might be a tiny bit better. But the odds of him playing as much as Lafrentz are practically nil. And Lafrentz doesn't need to post up, and shoots 37% from the 3pt line, so he fits in with Houston's offense better and works better than Collier as a shaq-bait zone buster. So, if the two alternatives are retaining Hakeem for a 2 year 11 million dollar deal or getting lafrentz with a promise that he'll resign... which do you choose, and why? ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news. [This message has been edited by haven (edited July 24, 2001).]
I don't understand the fascination with LaFrentz. He has done nothing, and would provide the Rockets with zero playoff experience. All he has done is put up decent numbers on a highly mediocre Denver team. I wouldn't even trade Kenny Thomas straight up for LaFrentz. ------------------ Protrolls.com! Keep the ???? alive! The ZRBucks!
Dang-it zrb, I'm not out for a lafrentz debate. Let me rephrase it: would you trade Hakeem for a younger center who we could all (hypothetically) agree is slightly better. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
If you have this little an understanding of what is the last piece the Rockets need to compete with the WC elite, you are not worth the time it takes to respond. haven - I love your hypothesis, but there's one real world problem. The Pacers are not only over the cap, but over the LTax. Dream would have to agree to Indiana's MCE - not likely. Our best bet is to clear as much caproom as possible (read no big contract in year 2 for Dream and/or no S&T's for players with contracts longer than 1 year) and add this to Walt's expiring contract next summer. IMHO, La Frentz will command about +/- $10M on the market. Walt's expiration puts us halfway there. With a huge 2nd year bump for Dream (or perhaps any 2nd year for Dream) it may not be possible. ------------------------ Raef to Rocks in '01-'02! [This message has been edited by GATER (edited July 24, 2001).]
Exactly, pip! If some combination of Kenny & picks (or Cato ) can't bring in LaFrentz, I say just wait until he becomes a FA and go after him then. By that time, the key players will have begun to come into their own and the Rocks will start to become a legitimate title contender. If the Rocks feel he's a player to put them over the top, sign him then (if available). ------------------
Haven...a resounding "YES". If we could dump Hakeem at this point for a guy who is going to be arguably the best free agent big man available next year, I would do it in a New York Minute. In fact, Id do it for Keon Clark or Chris Mihm as well. ------------------ [This message has been edited by NJRocket (edited July 24, 2001).]
NJRocket...I just finished watching the Portland/Cleveland Summer League game on ESPN2.....NO WAY I would want Chrissy Mihm on the Rox.....You think Cato and MoTay are soft? Mihm plays like a 9year old girl. He would be a permanent fixture on the IR. Not even worthy of the 12man rotation. ------------------
He seemed to show brief flashes of being a decent player last year (when he wasn't hurt). But either way..I would still give up Hakeem for a younger center. ------------------
pippen-what game were you watching? I watched that game too, and I saw Mihm matching up quite well with Randolph, who may be the strongest rookie in this class and just happened to torch our own rookie Eddie the night before. I'm not saying he won the matchup (I think Zach had 24 pts, not sure about Mihm), but he did not back down and wasn't being pushed around. I always liked Mihm's game-thought it resembled Duncan's with his combo of finesse moves in the post and fundamental skills that are hard to find in a 7-footer these days. If the Rocks and Cavs do work a S&T for Hakeem, I would love to pick up Mihm. I do, however, remember how he got that rep. Stromile Swift absolutely destroyed him in the tourney two years ago, and it was embarrassing to see a man his size back down from a 210 lb. sophomore. Still, excluding that game, he more than held his own against others down low. Besides, how can we possibly dog another big man for being soft when we have the ultimate sissy of them all. At least Mihm has the work ethic to play in the summer leagues and try to improve. ------------------
Unless you count the '99 Spurs, who had Tim Duncan in his 2nd year. The Rockets were also in the finals in '86 when Akeem was in his 2nd year. If you think Raef Lafrentz is going to launch a lottery team into contention, well, you know... ------------------ "What have you done for me lately Hakeem Olajuwon?" --the ClutchCity.net BBS
I can't believe how much you guys overrate LaFrentz. How many soft big men who can shoot 3's do the Rockets freakin need? What the Rockets need out of the Center position is a low post scoring threat and an intimidator. I know LaFrentz averaged 2.5 blocks per game last year or something like that, but if you actually watch the games, you will know that he is NOT a good defensive player by any stretch. And LaFrentz' post game is totally nonexistent. By no means is he a long-term solution type of player at the Center position. I'd rather trade for Keon Clark who is a demon shot blocker and could develop into a solid, excellent defensive center. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
TheFreak: Drobb took a back-seat to Duncan that year, but I'd still say that he was a better player at the time. Akeem had Ralph Sampson, and they didn't win anyway. And who thinks LaFrentz is going to "lift" the Rockets into contention? ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
I would trade Hakeem straight up for LaFrentz in a nanosecond, even with no assurances of signing him on a go forward basis. With all due respect to Hakeem, we are not going deep into the playoffs with him. There is no way he can go through a season without sustaining injuries that keep him out for exteneded periods of time, and further diminish his abilities when he does return. Let's invest in our future, not in the past. IMHO LaFrentz is hands down the superior player right now. And he has a great upside. He's a banger, smart, and has both the inside and outside game. And he runs the court very well. He is a perfect fit with this team and even more perfect now that zones are in. Don't draw any conclusions "just because he's not been on a playoff team yet."
from our perspective, wed never do this. but i think right now hakeem is a little better than raef (although i wouldnt trade raef for dream b/c of age). ------------------ the nuggets suck...i know, i know!
Even the Nuggets fan admits that Hakeem when healthy is better than LaFrentz. And some of you Rockets fans say LaFrentz is "hands down" the better player. Amazing ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
This makes NO sense. Francis doesn't have any playoff experience either. To say he put up good numbers on a bad team, Denver has won just as many games the last 2 years as Houston. Nobody wants to get rid of Francis. LaFrentz gives us everything we need. People want a low post scorer, he averages about 13 ppg. People want rebounding, he averages about 8 a game. People want shotblocking, he blocks 2 per game. Being on a bad team doesn't mean squat. It's still the NBA right? And the Rockets record says they are mediocre, they barely won more games then Denver last year! And LaFrentz has far more upside, and years left then Dream does. ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air
Cato=Bum, The operative word in your post is "when healthy." Look at Hakeem's track record regarding injuries and missed games the last two or three years. He is 38 y/o and you expect this to improve? No way. I love the guy, but facts are facts. To your point,for a given game "when healthy" Hakeem may outplay LaFrentz in the pure center role. But you have to look at the choice of one vs. the other and their impact on the team over the course of a year or two. And then let's consider what we would have at the END of two years to take us into the future. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Hakeem Vs Raef Forgetting all the obvious problems on this BBS with comparing Hakeem to anyone ..... let's at least settle this much ..... Raef LaFrentz will play IN more games than Hakeem. That is the knock on Hakeem and his present demands for more money than is prudent. Not that he can't play our "run and shoot" offense, not that he can't decently defend, not that he is not worth whatever his denmands are today .... He plain and simple will NOT be around for the the whole schedule. LaFrentz's game is compatible with our roster players, he has a decent percentage outside and in, he can rebound and block, and he has fairly decent legs. In short he is young, talented and has great upside. On The Trade: A trade involving concessions (picks), equitability (CBA limitations) and a third team always cause problems. But assuming the trade involved Hakeem and LaFrentz .... it would take either a third player (KT,Cato,Walt,) or multiple players (Willis,Chaney) in a mix to get this done. First of all why would Denver want to unload LaFrentz? Who would they replace him with? I still think a move towards Toronto with Keon Clark and some exception money in the mix, could grab Hakeem from the Rockets, ..... and involving Denver for the ultimate goal of replacing our disgruntled center with someone of LaFrentz's ability would cost us Keon Clark, possibly another player and a pick. * I would trade Hakeem to Toronto (Keon Clark and a pick). * Trade Keon Clark, the Raptor pick, and thier choice of Cato or Walt (they would take Walt more than likely), plus a future Rocket pick for Denver's LaFrentz and Kevin Willis(if they take Cato), or Calbert Chaney (if they take Walt). But in all likelihood we will trade Walt, to loosen up some money, sign Hakeem to a 7M/year - 2 year contract, sign MoTay, sign Mooch and get on the phone to unsuccessfully shuffle Cato's sorry butt otta here. ------------------
