Guards need to learn how to lob pass when Yao is fronted by the defender - video clip

Dude, the link you gave does not work and page looks like a frame

Try here:

http://www.yao-ming.tv/Yao Ming TV

 

That's harder to do now with the zone defense. Now you will notice that the defense has a man close by ready to run inside to steal the ball if the Rockets try to lob it to Yao when he is fronted. If there was no zone the Rockets could just spread the floor like they did in the old days with Hakeem and lob it to him.

 

I've also noticed that if he doesn't have position right away, the guards just swing the ball around. Sometimes you have to give a post player a chance to get position. But it seems that these guards don't really value the post game and would just rather play street ball.

 

i remembered that play as well. Although it's really risky, the guys should still use it once a while to let the opponents know that they have this weapon. It's always easier to defend you if you only have one or two typical moves.

 

I honestly didn't read the posts in this thread. I have been around this sight since it was clutchcity.com. This forum has turned into a joke. What once was my favorite place to surf and get great insightful Rocket info has turned into a b****fest. Not that anyone cares....but I will no longer visit this sight.

 

This is the same mistake everyone makes when they look at the lob and Yao. In this instance, there was no weak-side defender close enough to make a play on the ball. This was pretty common prior to zone defenses.

The team would spread the floor and float a pass over the fronting defender and it would be almost impossible for a defender to cheat over and help without being whistled for illegal defense.

Today, it is nearly impossible to throw a lob because weak-side defenders can sag down into the lane for 3 seconds at a time to help out. It's to the point now that defenders can actually double a man BEFORE he gets the ball.

In the case of Yao, it is now common to see a defender fronting him AND a defender set up behind him. In that case, it is IMPOSSIBLE to throw a lob to him in any position to score. That lob gets thrown, it's a turnover.

 

Exactly and we hope that JVG will require them to do so! The problem is their mind set they are the 'Stars' and they dont see anyone being on this Team thay might take their role away from them.

 

You've also got many situations where it was almost impossible to do that because of players on the other side coming over to help...but it's true i've seen times where it "probably" could have been thrown, and i say probably because who knows who would have caught it...

 

This is a joke right? Zone or not, I don't see any single defender fronting Shaq or Duncan, because they know they can't cheat. With Rockets it is OK to cheat on Yao, because it takes 5 seconds for the guards to decide to throw a lob pass, by which time double team has already showed up. The time window may only last a second.

In the Raptors game, there are so many oppurtunties that Yao boxed out his fronter and is open to the basket. If the guards had a mind-set plus skill to throw a lob pass, there would be so many easy baskets!

 

Jeff,
I agree the new rules make it harder to throw the lob pass but there have been plenty of times when there is no weak side help and the man with the ball ignores the pass in order to go one on one or pass it back out to the peremeter. I just don't think Steve or Moochie are brimming with confedence in Yao right now. Of course some of the blame has to be placed on Yao for fumbling passes, turning the ball over and missing point blank shots.

 

The lob definately wont work all the time. But im sure the rockets could manage at least 2 in a game. Yao needs to face that he will more likely be double teamed this whole season, and Ewing needs to take his experience and teach Yao different tecniques inside the post. Seems like Yao only knows one way to post up, and he goes to the basket the same way everytime. Unlike Hakeem that used so many different moves. Of course hakeem had lightning speed. But most Centers are bigger now and thicker. All that weight they put into Yao, yao should manage to use quick offensive moves to his advantage and height. They should even get him involved in the pick n roll with francis cause hes good at making that longer distance jumpshot.

 

lancet,

I really think a big problem is that our guards have a lack of confidence in Yao right now. Perticularly in the game against the Raptors Yao missed some very easy point blank shots when he should have just dunked the ball plus he was a turnover machine fumbling passes and losing the ball on his dribble.

Now I am a firm believer in getting your big man into a rythem and getting his confidence up and I just don't see our guards doing that. I really believe that when Yao Ming is the best option then you should get him the ball and clearly our guards are not doing that but some of the blame for their lack of confedence should be place on Yao for not performing consistently when the opertunity is there and not being more vocal about wanting the ball.

 

BTW, I just wanted to add that our guards are just as guilty of ignoring Yao when he is in the middle of the paint with his man sealed off 4 feet in front of the basket. So there is absolutely a problem with our guards.

 

I am constantly yelling at the darn t.v. for these guys to lob a pass into Yao when he is being fronted...Why? Because I know its possible. This is what I would tell Yao to do when they give him a pass like that "lean in the direction of the pass and be ready to be running into someone behind you!"

If they keep wrestling the ball from you its Elbow time!

This is weak and I know Yao can catch a pass like that. He may not be great at it but he will get better with practice. But someone has to have enough balls to try it first.

As long as Braggs finds a way to get the ball to Yao closer to the basket he will play more. Plain and simple at least he has figured that out already. I wish that were the case with SF and Cat.

 

The big difference is that no one can stop Shaq and Duncan. Shaq is way too strong and Duncan can face up his defender and go around him. Yao is not close to being at that level of play.

I can't imagine why you would attempt to compare Yao to either of those guys at this point in his career. It is a disservice to Yao because he is a second-year center who has a VERY different game.

What I find to be a joke is the idea that this is the fault of the guards or the fault of Yao alone. In case you hadn't noticed, there are five guys on the floor and a coach. They all get equal blame for the problems with the offense.

Trying to blame it one person or one set of people in order to prop up your opinion is not fully understanding the game.

 

On the lob pass play, compare Yao vs Shaq/Duncan is certainly legit. Yao has boxed out his single fronter and is open to basket. A TIMELY lob pass would certainly create an easy dunk. This season Braggs and Padgett have made 2 such plays so far. Our guards have 10 times more chance to made such play, but in reality they have made 0 such plays. Numbers don't lie.

I don't blame the guards alone for the loss yesterday. It got to start from the top. JVG needs to do a much better job controlling his players and make they play smart. He already took that blame and responsibility. On the other hand, the best Francis can come up in the loser-mentality comment on Bosh's 3PT shot. I hope he sort out this mess soon with Francis soon, maybe benching him for entire games if he has too. Honestly, with the starting PG playing against the coach, this team is going no where.

 

The problem with the lob passes thrown by Rocket players (besides Bragg) is the height of the trajectory.

Let's say if defender X is fronting Yao or Cato, and X can jump up to 12 feet in normal circumstance, a good lob pass is not one where it clears 13 feet. It is one where it clears 10 or 11 feet.

If you see the defender X is bending his back trying to push into Yao or Cato with an elbow on his back, I can guarantee that he is not going to be able to intercept the lob pass.

A lob pass with less height give less time for the weak side defender to react and thereby can be successful even when the weakside defender is not light years away.

Of course, this won't work if the passer is so deliberate that everybody and their grand mother know a lob is coming.

 

simply put, our guards ability to throw a well timed and well placed lob pass is very, very poor.

if a defender is cheating over from the weakside, as Jeff brings up, the automatic response is to quickly swing the ball to the weakside, if possible by skip pass, else by going around the horn. that "cheating" defender will have to go out and cover his man, else give up an open shot. once he does that, yao ming is now in the lane, defender sealed behind him, waiting for an entry pass...probably to the hand closest to the baseline, since the top defender may be sagging down a little bit. very simple. very.

if there is no defender cheating, and yao's defender is 3/4 fronting, the pass is UNBELIEVABLE simple. just throw a lob pass aiming for the bottom corner of the backboard. the same applies to a full fronting defender.

the other part of the equation rests with the guards enabling themselves to make the pass, which primarily concerns gaining separation from their defender. it's damn difficult to make a proper entry pass when your defender is inside your jock. so gain some damn separation! a simple jab step will do it!!

instead, our guards get impatient and pass the ball away or try to create a (bad) shot for themselves. then we here that "yao can't get position". that's partially true: yao is having difficulty getting perfect position.

shaq, tim, etc. can get "perfect" position (re: man pinned on their backsides), but do not always get it. at times when they don't get that position, their guards are competent enough to compensate for the lack of perfect positioning. they make the "harder" pass. in truth, though, that pass is not that difficult.

our guards, when it comes to entry passing proficiency....suck. no way around it.

 

Shaq and Duncan both do a good job sealing their man behind. Sometimes the defender tries to front but simply could get around them. Also, Shaq/duncan is much quicker than Yao and has better hands. i.e. they handle good/bad lob passes much better than Yao does.