It would be desirable to learn(find out): what position played Grif: 3, 4 or 5. Interestingly arrangement of a command(team) when Cato sat on a bench.
1st half Griff came in for Cato at the 5. Second half Griff came in for KT at the 4 and moved to the 5 when KT came back in and Cato went out. Griffin has yet to log any minutes at the 3.
Crash, are you saying the position somebody is playing is based on the person they substituted for? That is the impression I am getting from you. I saw the game and I would say that he played all three front court positions. No one is going to tell me that when EG sets a pick for Moochie or Mobes on the 3pt line and then hit the 3pt shot, he is playing the 5, instead of the more obvious 3 spot.
Ever heard of Bill Laimbeer? He may have been the best ever at setting the high pick and then draining the long jumber and yes he did it from behind the arc. I don't recall anyone ever confusing him for a 3. Last year Mo did the same thing but he would just step up to his comfort zone and shoot the ball. KT does it as did Bull when he was here. Malone does it in Utah as do many other big men. Cato even does it for us the difference is that when Cato sets a pick he rolls to the basket where as Eddie has the option of staying behind the arc or rolling to the basket. When Collier is in the game the Rockets will use him to run the high pick and roll as well but trust me when I tell you that Collier is no 3. Teams like using big men in a pick and roll because of their size. Since you think the obvious person to set the pick and roll is the person playing the 3 then please tell me how many times you see Walt, Oscar, Shandon (when he was here) setting the high pick? Teams much prefer a big man. Griifin did not play the 3 last night unless he did it while I was in the crapper.
Look at this combination: Griffin-Morris-Mobley-Francis-Moochie. Griffin's the 5. Griffin has the range to shoot 3s. So does Lafrentz. So did Sabonis, that doesn't mean they're not centers. Because he's shooting outside means he can't be a 4 or a 5? What about Karla Malone? Sheed? KG? etc. In Rudy's system, how often does the SF set the pick? Not very. Usually Walt gets his open looks off of penetration kick outs. So basically, no one is going to tell me that a guy that guarded the perimeter once (on a switch off of NVE), and was guarded by a guy that wasn't 6'10''+ and considered a PF/C (Ryan Bowen, Raef Lafrentz, Scot Williams) once (Avery Johnson, and ironically the only shot Eddie missed) is a small forward.
there is also the matter of offensive position vs. defensive position. I'd say a guy is playing the 5 if he's guarding the other team's 5. if he's guarding the other team's 3, then he's probably the 3. offense switches things around so much, and in today's nba, even if you're the guy posting up down low. . . that doesn't necessarily mean you're a 5. to me, the defensive assignments are the better indicators of position.
Crash, the point to be made is that the demands and requirements for playing the 3 in this league offensively, whatever they are, are being met by EG irrespective of who he substituted for. I will say that on certain possessions, EG has played and is capable of playing the 3. It is incorrect for you to say the EG has not played SF this year since it appears you are basing that purely on who he substituted for. Defensively, he has played the 4 and 5, due to his strengths in the low post. Minnie, I like your point that is why I have been suggesting that we drop the labels especially the 3 & 4 labels.
Using this logic, then Moochie must've been playing the 5. He ended up guarding LaFrentz down low 2 times on the switch. Griffin is not playing, nor is he going to be playing the 3 position. He's going to be our Raef LaFrentz type of player, only better. I do agree with DearRock's comment about not labeling them by position though. The NBA is changing, because not many teams have the prototypical center anymore.
3, 4 and 5 seem to be interchangable in today's NBA. If you think about Kevin Garnett for instance, he can play just about every position on the court. I personally would be hesitant(sp) to call Eddie a 5 for the same reason I would be hesitant to call Garnett a 5. Garnett has proven to be a more valuable player when he is not playing the center position....Eddie is of the same mold. He has the ability to be a defensive dominator no matter which position he is playing...3, 4 or 5. On offense, however, he(much like Garnett) needs to develop a few low post 'go-to'' moves in order to be considered a good post up player.....something you need from the 5 position no matter what offensive schema you run.
DearRock-We're not basing it on who he's subbing for. We're basing it on the lineups used. Rudy is yet to use Griffin+KT+a center (Willis or Cato). Name me ONE combination Rudy has used where Griffin OR Kenny has been the 3. It hasn't happened. And again, on Griffin's skills being that of a 3, he has only played perimeter D when he's on a switch off. Otherwise, he's guarding a big man. His lateral movement is not good enough to hold the Sprewell type 3s. His handles need a lot of work. That's what separates Garnett from Griffin. Garnett has PG-like court vision, and ball handling skills. Garnett can bring the ball up the court. Griffin isn't comfortable dribbling a lot, though he's improving. Griffin at the 3 exposes his weaknesses of perimeter defense and ball handling. That's why he doesn't play it. Griffin has said often that he's been working out a lot in attempts to gain muscle. If he were a 3, with his current tools, quickness and lateral movement would be greater focuses. Here's a CD quote shortly after the Taylor injury: "If you look at our team right now, we've got two centers, we still have two power forwards in Kenny Thomas and Eddie Griffin , and we have three 3s in Glen Rice, Walt Williams and Dan Langhi," Dawson said. From the Chronicle Archives
Bottomline: Are we saying that if Rudy plays Cato or Willis, KT and EG at the same time, EG would not be as effective as he has been or the team would be at this big disadvantage? I think he and the team would be as effective. That has not happened principally due to the rotation and minute allocation that Rudy wants. I do not see that alignment having any more difficulties that what is currently being done. I have learnt not to be quick to doubt EG's capabilities in certain situations just because I have not seen it yet.
