http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestCenters They have Hakeem at 5 which I think is bull and so called analyst like Kiki Vandeweghe said 6 other centers are better than him and Jim O'Brien says 5 are better than him. Teams: Houston Rockets (1984-2001), Toronto Raptors (2001-2002) Titles: 2 (1994, 1995) Honors: 12-time All-Star, MVP (1994), two-time Finals MVP (1994, 1995) The player: Olajuwon was the most graceful pivot man of them all; he had the some of the best moves the post has ever seen, most notably the "Dream Shake." A great all-around player and the all-time shot-block leader, Olajuwon might as well have been created in a lab: perfect height, speed, quickness, power, agility, disposition, shooting ability and footwork. Oh, and he was a winner. He outplayed Ewing, Robinson and O'Neal to lead Houston to back-to-back titles and his 21.8 ppg career average shot up to 25.9 in the postseason. Few have been better than The Dream in June.
Nobody replied to this thread all afternoon? Weird. Hakeem being number 5 on a list of greatest centers of all time? That's not bull, that's pretty good company he's in. Was he better than Wilt, Russell, and Kareem? No. Was he better than Shaq? Debateable, but I'd say he was because of the era he played in while Shaq basically had Ben Wallace as his opposition. I didn't see Shaq doing crap when he was in the league with Ewing, Dream, David Robinson, and a full-strength Alonzo. Plus he had Kobe for most of his prime while Hakeem had Vernon Maxwell for most of his prime (Clyde came near the very end). 1. Russell 2. Wilt 3. Kareem 4. Dream 5. Shaq Bill Walton shouldn't even be in the top 10.
As far as I am concerned you could take the top 6 or 7 and shake them up any way you want to. Those guys are all that close IMO. After Walton, on the list the talent falls off quite a bit IMO. Robinson took a back seat to Duncan when he won his rings. Ewing is the only one on the list that does not have a ring...I am not even convinced he belongs on the list.
That is just a crazy coment to say. Walton was clearly a top ten center and arguably a top 5 center of all time...when he was healthy. I certainly would never entertain a crazy idea that because Robinson and Ewing played more years that they were better.
Hakeem surpassed four bigs on that all-time list, in his era, to get his rings. That is more than can be said of O' Neal whom imo should be behind Dream. That's bullshiite but of course I'm bias as he is the greatest from my point of view.
that's cause they were replying to the same thread here: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=125574 weird thing is both guys made threads at the exact same time.
Surely health matters... I also find the Steve Nash should be MVP because his team tanks without him argument equally illogical. Who shouldn't get awards because you get injured, regardless of how your team does in your absence. Bill Walton only played in 468 games over 10 seasons. And only one time did he play in more than 67 games in a season, his second to last, when he played only 19 mpg, on the 86 Celtic team, as a bench player. Patrick Ewing played 17 seasons, averaging nearly 70 games a season. David Robinson played 14 seasons, averagin over 70 games a season. Of course, longetivity does not equal greatness. But then Walton's best seasons don't even come close statistically to Robinson's best, and are at best, on par with Ewings best. Hakeem's best years, of course, trump all 3 of them. PER stats paint a similiar story. Walton had great talent, no doubt. But he's clearly the one guy on the list who stands out as maybe not being there. He has the lowest PPG average, the second lowest rpg average, the secodn lowest bpg and the second lowest PER. they don't list assists average for each player, but I'd imagine Walton would at least be near the top there. He was an MVP and Finals MVP, but nearly everyone on the top 10 has at least one of those. His 2 all star appearances is frankly pathetic for a top 10 player of all time at any position. if you want to put him in the top 10, ok. and if you want to argue he deserves to be ranked ahead of Ewing and Mikan...ok. But D.Rob is being short-changed to be behind him, imo.
You can also easily make a case for Hakeem being the best of all time. When Hakeem played the game was different. Look at the best overall players of all time by position. They all come from Hakeem's era. Jordan, Bird, Magic, Thomas, need i say more. Wilt had Russell and vice versa but Russell was a defensive center. Do you honestly thi nk he would have made the impact Hakeem did in Olajuwon's era? Abdul-Jabbar played with two other top 50 NBA players and one of the best man on man defenders (Cooper) and Byron Scott
I always try to look at what I'd need when building a team when determining any "best ever" list. Do I need purely defense? I may go with Russell. Do I need a brute? Gimme Shaq. A complete package? Dream, Kareem, & Wilt could all easily be in this slot. I terms of overall skill set, and upping one's game when it counts, I've got to give it to Dream all the way.
You can't put players in a " best of all time " list if they didn't last long and they went only by potential. That would mean Penny Hardaway, Bernard King, Danny Manning...hell, even Jimmy Jackson... were among the all-time greats given only their peak years. Based on that logic, we could make a very good argument that Yao should be in there because he clearly has more potential than Ewing. It should be based entirely on successful careers, either championship-wise or individual stats over a long period of time. Top 10 centers...the real list... 1. Russell 2. Wilt 3. Kareem 4. Dream 5. Shaq 6. Moses 7. Tim Duncan ( yeah, he's a center in my book ) 8. Mikan 9. Admiral 10. Ewing
Here's a better question: Where do you guys see Yao in that list after his career's over? I can see him easily booting out Ewing...and if he wins at least a championship, you could make an argument he's better than David Robinson ( I'm assuming he'll end up with better stats by the end than Admiral ). Maybe 8 or 7 depending on how much you like Mikan.
Eh, honestly I think the list is pretty balanced. Seems about right to me anyway. I'd probably rank the greats: 1.) Bill Russell - Come on... the guy had 11 titles, 5 time MVP, maybe the best defender of all time, could get it done. Period. 2.) Kareem - It's really very close between Russell and Kareem; Kareem may have very well been a slightly better, more complete player, but I just cannot ignore Russell's 11 titles. Kareem was definitely amazing though... 6 titles, all time points leader, Kareem is deserving, on any list, of 1st or 2nd. 3.) Wilt Chamberlin - Not quite as amazing as Russell and Kareem, but still one of the greatest players to play the game. A legend. 4.) The Dream - I put Hakeem at 4, but 5 really isn't an insult to his legacy. I say he's slightly better than Shaq because Hakeem played during a period where there were still great big men. On that alone I give him the 4th spot, even though Hakeem isn't quite on the same level as the big 3 he was an amazing all-around talent. One of the best ever. 5.) Shaq - No question one of the great bigmen, 4 titles, a re-imagining of Wilt if you will. Had he of really hit his prime during the late 80s-early 90s like Hakeem he may very well be ranked about the Dream. He didn't but I can certainly see why he's usually mentioned as the 4th best and not Hakeem. 6.) Moses Malone 7.) Mikan - Respek for history 8.) Robinson 9.) Bill Walton - Not a top 5 guy, but definitely one of the great all time centers. Had injuries not hampered his career who knows ultimately how high he'd rank. 10.) Duncan - A great center in a new era where the traditional dominant big man has vanished in most instances. Runner Up: Patrick Ewing - Haha... way to not win a title. I think as long as Hakeem is acknowledged as the 4th or 5th best center of all time it's fair. That's truly where he deserves to be, all bias aside. The Dream was one of the best centers (best players) ever, but he wasn't really in the same league as the big 3 and you can split hairs all day over who is better between him and Shaq. Finally... I think when it's all said and done Yao Ming will be a top 10 all time center. I could see him around 7 or 8, especially if he wins a title or two.
The thing that is just amazing is that Russel won 11 championships in 13 years. only two years he didn't win a championship. that is just amazing.