Graduate Sues Air Force Academy for Trying to Force Cadets to Convert to Christianity

When you get sued for recommending a movie, that is the legal system run amok.

 

Did you read the article? Obviously you didn't.

 

Wow, I knew they had problems with female sensitivity, but this is a new one to me. It's a shame because the academy is such a unique place. I've visited it several times and always been impressed not only with how beautiful the campus surroundings are (not the buildings but the mountains) and what a unique educational experience it offers. I've even often wished that maybe I had attended. But, it's things like this that remind me why I'm not cut out for the military.

 

Obviously I did, or I would not have been able to quote from it. Mostly I just thought it was funny that a movie recommendation was included as part of the complaint. Imagine the uproar if he had recommended Kingdom of Heaven.

I do not think that the Air Force Acadamy should be in the business of proselytizing, but these complaints are fairly asinine. The worst of the complaints is that one cadet called another (Jewish) cadet a "Christ Killer". There is a sign in the locker room that talks about being Christian first. I didn't see one example of "trying to force cadets to convert to Christianity". These people are going to be putting their lives on the line. If you can't handle a peer calling you a name or reading a sign you don't agree with, then how are you going to handle being shot at.

People are such p*****s nowadays.

 

If this article had replaced Islam with Christianity, Gwayneco would have been all over it

 

Gotta love the hypocrisy and the double-standards, eh?

 

Actually that was a pretty good movie, pretty balanced and fair to both sides for the most part, although it shouldn't be lost on anyone that it's still a movie, not a documentary.

Wow! Great! So I can call every Black guy a ******, every Hispanic a beaner, every White dude 'white trash' and a 'redneck', and every Arab 'Bin Laden' and be surprised when people are offended?

When you call a guy on YOUR OWN TEAM a "Christ Killer", then why the f*k should he be fighting to protect you out there? These guys are supposed to have each others' backs, not be name-calling and race-baiting one another. This country is a multi-cultural country, and everyone is free to practice their own faiths on their own time, not have the country or an outfit such as the U.S. Army (which is financed by tax-payers like myself and that Jewish soldier's family) endorse such practices.

It's really concerning that as the years have passed since 9/11, those seeds of bigotry, hatred, and intolerance in our society are starting to creep up to the surface and are becoming more overt in nature, which is a sad statement that despite the fact we've made some progress in the past three-four decades, many people still haven't changed; some people still harbor contempt in their hearts for the 'other' guy because of his personal faith or his skin color. I don't think we should lecture the world until we have made sure that we've taken care of our own problems first. But that's just me, since I don't believe in hypocrisy.

 

If you did, I don't think any of them should sue any organization you happen to be a part of. That is an issue of you being an ass, not your club, employer, school, etc trying to force anything. As a "white dude", if you called me white trash, redneck, cracker, honkey, etc. I a) wouldn't care and b) certainly wouldn't call a lawyer.

Maybe because it is his duty. Maybe because "I" would be fighting to protect him. It's certainly possible to be a prick and a good soldier.

I don't think the Air Force is endorsing the religious slurs, especially considering that they "issued guidelines discouraging public prayer at official functions and urging commanders to be sensitive about personal expressions of religious faith." Most organiztions are not going to go to those lengths and at the same time endorse "such practices".

I agree.

 

You superimpose "I" in place of the dude who called him christ killer. Trying to say that even though he called him Christ killer he would still be fighting his hardest for the christ killer. HMMMM, I hope you completely understand the absolute flaw in your asinine logic.


Any entity is guilty, if they allow it to occur, or put up signs claiming christ first. Imagine your heated response if at your work you employers put up a sign that said Islam first, or Satan first.

 

I'll keep that in mind next time a Christian complains about how the Ten Commandments, teaching ID or prayer in school aren't being allowed.

 

::Sighs:: Apparently, that type of 'logic' is lost on some people. May be it's because some people are ethno-centric and find it difficult to understand the 'other side' or don't really stop and ask themselves, "what if I was in [insert person's name]'s shoes?"

If an organization does not punish the offender (any organization, including a private one, and not just a taxpayer-financed entity such as the military) then it's absolutely complicit in the offense.

Look, I am certainly not opposed to soldiers drawing comfort from their own faiths while facing the prospect of war, I am simply asking for it not to be applied in a public way that would cause discomfort for those who don't share that particular faith (whatever it is); that really should be a given when our Constitution prohibits government endorsement of any religion. I am not saying that it was necesserily the case here, I am just making a general argument. That's just my view...

 

There is an NPR "Talk of the Nation" program, including discussing the issue, including a discussion with Capt. Melinda Morton, the former XO of the chaplain unit which can be found here:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4714306

Capt. Morton resigned because after whistle-blowing she was removed from her post and "coincidentally" reassigned to Iraq. If you listen to Capt. Morton's part you get a better feel of the situation.

quote source

Keep in mind the nature of the clearly delineated military command structure and the strict punishment for violating it. It's one thing for your boss to tell you that you should be a christian, as you can always ignore them, flip them off behind their back, or quit and get another job.

Given that under the most stringent conditions, (combat) disobeying a lawful order carries a maximum penalty of court martial and death, the issue in the military is different. Even though that condition clearly doesn't apply here, the martial culture which prepares you for that environment is in effect. As such any prosthelytizing or any other "advice" which has a hint of being a command should be considered very serious and scrutinized.

One similar example which is discussed is the stigma of seeking psychological counciling by an officer. Doing so is widely considered a black mark on an officer's record, and signals an end to potential advancement. This is a moronic unofficial policy, and the idea is that agressive prosthelytizing might suggest a similar "non-christian" stigma, and cadets might feel obliged to "convert" or be shunted to a dead end forgoten assigment on an ice floe in the arctic ocean monitoring the weather.

One thing that I found interesting is the Air Force attempt to blame the problem on inappropriate attempts to correct previous sexual harassment problems. Whether this is legitimate or simply a crack at the sexual harassment concerns, I don't know.

 

Actually, tigermission inserted the pronoun "you" when addressing his post to me, so I used the pronoun "I" for the sake of consistancy. The quote marks were meant to show that I was not talking about myself, but rather the "you" mentioned in tigermission's post. Sorry for any confusion that occured either in the original post or this convoluted explaination. I was also putting forth a list of hypothetical reasons that someone should fight to protect someone that had denigrated them. If Cadet B called Cadet J "Christ Killer" and later became Soldier B who fought his hardest to protect Soldier J, then I think Soldier J should fight to protect Soldier B, despite his earlier bigotry.

Every school I have gone to and company I have worked for has had things about it that I disagreed with, but that did not lead to my suing them. As for allowing it to occur, I'm not sure what you want them to do. I am not sure what the academy's options are in dealing with ethnic/religious slurs. If such was already expressly forbidden, then the cadet should be expelled, and they are not allowing it to occur. If not, then there could be some sort of sensitivity training, as well as making a rule fobidding the use of slurs. It isn't really clear who put up a sign proclaiming "I am a Christian first", but if a cadet put it up, I don't have a problem with it. The best response in that case would be for a cadet that disagrees with that to ask the one who put it up to take it down.

I think I have rambled on long enough, but I hate it when people start getting litigious over something that a simple converstion could probably rectify.

EDIT: As for the Chaplain Unit prosyletizing, that is easily rectified, don't have chaplains at the Academy. A non-denominational worship area could be provided on the campus, like that seen at many hospitals, where students could feel free to go and pray, but there is no need to provide military priests in Colorado. I am sure there is easy access to many placed of worship near the Academy, unless I have a gross misunderstanding of cadet life. I would not get rid of chaplains altogether, even though it is hard to constitutionally support a government clergyman, because I think it is good that we provide soldiers in the field with religious services, one less thing they have taken away from them. In the end, it may come down to that though.

 

If this was Bob Jones University or Liberty University, then I would agree with you. However, the AFA is not Bob Jones Univ.

 

1. 'Imposing Christianity' ? Can a leopard change it's spots? Impossible.
2. Name-calling? Nothing Christian about that. The right thing is to sue this 'Christian' cadet for false advertising.
3. 'Pressure'? OK, gun to your back forcing you to chapel is way over the line!
4. Mr. Weinstein couldn't worship as he chooses? That is religious persecution, free the worshipers.
5. New Testament verses in government email- I am shocked! Horrified!

I shouldn't joke. I know this is a problem.
I understand the problem. I know the definition and importance of tolerance, sensitiviy and separation...

There are several very fundemental flaws in the logic of these type issues I think from a Christian's viewpoint-

1. God makes people Christians it can never be imposed on anyone. Nor can anyone even choose it. It is God's work and God's choice.
2. Bad Christians do not make Christianity bad. Muslims understand this.
3. 'share their faith' should not mean coerce, if this happens it is respectfully wrong.

"to involuntarily convert, pressure, exhort or persuade a fellow member of the USAF to accept their own religious beliefs while on duty."- the next person to involuntarily become a Christian will be the first.

It is wrong to force people to attend Christian meetings and say Christian prayers. Forcing anything Christian is wrong.

It is also wrong to allow the abuse of a few to silence a proper Christian public expression of faith.

To be a 'witness for Christ' and to 'preach the Gospel' - have little to do (if anything) with name-calling, banners and pressure.

Some of Jesus followers were government tax collectors! Talk about separation of govt. & religion- not in Jesus day. These tax collectors were once crooks and they became honest govt. workers. A good honest government tax collector might be a pretty good witness for Christianity.

I trust Christians in the Air Force who give a proper example of Christ will not be censored.

 

Now that is a great idea. Not being in the military I don't know enough about the specific duties of a military chaplain but I like the idea of a non-denominational area at the academies and bases and then leaving it up to soldiers and cadets to seek their own worship services.