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grab your nut sacs, i gotta trade 4 ya...stevie's up outta here!@

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by verse, Nov 17, 2001.

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verse Member

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<b><u>do you have the balls to do it? you're creating 2 "potential" dynasties....</u></b>

Houston trades: Kenny Thomas $946,920 to L.A. Clippers
Houston trades: Steve Francis $3,473,520 to L.A. Clippers
TOTAL: $4,420,440

L.A. Clippers trades: Lamar Odom $2,812,320 to Houston
L.A. Clippers trades: Keyon Dooling $1,654,320 to Houston
TOTAL: $4,466,640

TRADE ACCEPTED

*********************************************************

Houston lineup:

PG: Moochie Norris (4 now)/Keyon Dooling(the future)
SG: Cuttino Mobley/Glen Rice
SF: Lamar Odom/Walt Williams
PF: Eddie Griffin/Terrence Morris
C: Kelvin Cato/Kevin Willis

3 ball handling lefties in the backcourt and a strong 2nd unit this year; very good pg in the making in dooling (6'5ish"); eddie pans out...you've got a finals contender for next decade

LA Clippers lineup:

PG: Steve Francis/Jeff McGinnis
SG: Quentin Richardson/Vinny Del Negro
SF: Darius Miles/Eric Piatkowski
PF: Elton Brand/Kenny Thomas
C: Michael Olowokandi/Sean Rooks

Francis/Miles/Brand as the Big 3. nuff said?

**************

Western Conference Powerhouses 4 the next 8 years:

Houston
Clippers
Lakers
Sacramento

<u><b>i'd do it. i'd let my nuts hang low. would you?</u></b>

#1 verse, Nov 17, 2001

Francis3 Member

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SHUT THE **** UP!

Throw In cato and i say yes.

#2 Francis3, Nov 17, 2001
verse Member

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Originally posted by Francis3
SHUT THE **** UP!

Throw In cato and i say yes.
Click to expand...

why would u throw in cato? that actually HELPS the clippers! cato and willis are good for 20 and 15 combined every night! why give that up and have willis and jason collier?

plus, that doesn't even match up salary wise!?

do me a favor...reread and think again....this trade is no punk. do you have the balls or not?!

#3 verse, Nov 17, 2001
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Give me some of that "pot" that you're smoking.

#4 j-bone, Nov 17, 2001
Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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Why??

It's not a matter of having nuts...It's a matter of having common sense.

Sure, Odom has all the tools, but I would rather have Brand before Lamar. Plus, I don't think that Keyon Dooling is ever going to get to the level that Francis will.

Also, factor in that Odom is the type that will screw himself by getting kicked out of the league, and I don't see why this trade is being talked about.

However, I have to admit, you do have some nuts to suggest this.

#5 Manny Ramirez, Nov 17, 2001
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Stupid, stupid, STUPID trade. That would kill this franchise. Why? For the last 3 years this organization has been building this team as a backcourt oriented team. You can't win a championship if your big man can't get the ball. And this team is on the verge of breaking through, all you need is added frontcourt help, and you would tear apart that plan to throw in a franchise SF? If you started the rebuilding plan at the start yeah, but to scratch it in mid stream would set this franchise back several years. Odom has been unable to carry a Clippers team that is arguably more talented then the Rockets, what makes people think he could carry THIS team? It's not a matter of having the guts to do that deal, it's a matter of not killing your franchises' momentum by making a deal like that.

#6 RocksMillenium, Nov 17, 2001
verse Member

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manny,

lamar odom and 85% of the nba smokes weed. he's just getting caught...right now. do you really think that will continue? the spotlight will move off of him soon enough.

2ndly, this isn't about whether keyon dooling will reach the level of steve francis. i'm not sure anyone at all will reach steve's level if he fulfills he potential. but will he? will he ever accept the reigns as "the man?" i don't think so. how many franchise players...who claim to be "THE MAN" openly choose to defer to another player when a clutch shot is needed? try none. i cannot think of one...now or ever.

keyon dooling is a freak of nature as well. those who live in la, i'm sure, can confirm this. he has extreme scoring ability, can jump out the damn gym and is young. if he gives you 18 points and 7 assists, that's all you need. the question is not about keyon. you're missing the boat.

i'll let you - or someone else - figure out who this trade really hinges on.

i'll tell you this much...cuttino is good for 22-25 ppg. lamar is a triple double waiting to happen. keyon has the potential to be a 18ppg scorer who will dunk on yo aiiish! eddie can be a 15 and 10 player - EASILY.

how good is that team in a year or two? i think that team can be better than the team we have now, and can be a championship contender. cuttino would be the tracy mcgrady to lamar odom's grant hill. think about it.

now toss in eddie griffin and a tall, quick, aggressive point guard in keyon dooling.

also factor the question marks about whether or not steve will be resigning here.

i'm not going to say that this is an easy trade. but it is a trade, IMO, worth doing...

#7 verse, Nov 17, 2001

verse Member

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Originally posted by RocksMillenium
Stupid, stupid, STUPID trade. That would kill this franchise. Why? For the last 3 years this organization has been building this team as a backcourt oriented team. You can't win a championship if your big man can't get the ball. And this team is on the verge of breaking through, all you need is added frontcourt help, and you would tear apart that plan to throw in a franchise SF? If you started the rebuilding plan at the start yeah, but to scratch it in mid stream would set this franchise back several years. Odom has been unable to carry a Clippers team that is arguably more talented then the Rockets, what makes people think he could carry THIS team? It's not a matter of having the guts to do that deal, it's a matter of not killing your franchises' momentum by making a deal like that.
Click to expand...

rocksmill,

no offense, but your entire problem is based around losing steve francis. this does not - in any way - change this from being a backcourt oriented team. do you not realize that odom, dooling and/or mobley ALL THREE can and have played the point guard position????

you could even run this lineup:

PG: lamar
SG: cuttino
SF: rice/walt
PF: eddie
C: willis/cato.

how much different is that lineup from what we're doing now? you have a taller pg who can give you a triple double (does that not sound like steve francis)?? then you have dooling coming off of the bench.

you could even package up moochie and walt and trade them for some frontcourt help.

#8 verse, Nov 17, 2001
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remember it's puff, puff, pass ...................don't forget to ppppppppppppaaasssssss..............................aight.

#9 FLAGRANT1, Nov 17, 2001
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There are a number of reasons I can think to not do this trade, but the one that makes most sense to me is this:

Lamar Odom is overrated. Enough said.

#10 JayZ750, Nov 17, 2001
verse Member

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Lamar Odom career stats:

18 ppg
8 rebounds
5 assists
1 steal
1 block

oh yea...he's 6'10 and can play 4 positions...

yea...he's waaaaay overrated.

#11 verse, Nov 17, 2001
verse Member

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steve francis career stats:

19 points
6 boards
7 assits
1.6 steals
.3 blocks...

oh yea...steve just bllooooows lamar away...

btw, lamar is younger than steve is and has 7 inches on him.

think again before you call someone overrated...

#12 verse, Nov 17, 2001
verse Member

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how many positions can steve play? 2
how may positions can lamar play? 4

#13 verse, Nov 17, 2001

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Why not just trade Francis and Thomas for Payton and Lewis?

#14 BobFinn*, Nov 17, 2001
Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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Verse,
I'm sorry, but I just don't think that Odom is all that. I agree with JayZ in that he is overrated. And you're right about Dooling but it's still a risky trade because he can become a Cato. Remember, Cato was supposed to be a more than decent center and he has proven that he is not. Am I saying that Dooling will become lazy and not give a damn like Cato? No, but he could still become a bust and if he does then he'll be like Cato in that regard.

I admire you having the cahonies to want to do this, but there are better deals out there than this one, IMO.

Although, I would never trade Francis, I would do a Francis & Thomas deal for Mike Bibby and Peja Stokavoic or Andre Miller and Lamond Murray before doing the one you're proposing.

#15 Manny Ramirez, Nov 17, 2001
JayZ750 Member

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I understand his numbers are good, but I think people look at them and say, WOW, he's great and then add smiley faces and rolly eyes Numbers arent the only thing to look at.

Regardless, it doesnt seem to me that he puts up amazing numbers because of his hard work on the court. He has amazing potential - he could put up 6 more points per game, a couple more boards, a couple more blocks, but he doesnt. He definitely shows no leadership skills (I like pot as much as the next guy and dont think any less of Lamar but you just cant do that in the NBA). Does Lamar Odom have the desire to win...I doubt it! He would be a great addition to any team, but at the expense of Steve Francis...hell no. I mean Shawn Marion's career numbers are comparable to Odom's (less points and assits per game but more boards, steals) but I wouldnt trade Steve for him.

Also, if Franics can only play 2 positions, how come Rudy uses the Moochie, Mobley, Francis lineup sometimes.

And we havent even got into the chemistry issues.

In my opinion, Lamar Odom is overrated. Try not to be influences solely by stats when judging a players abilities.

#16 JayZ750, Nov 17, 2001
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verse, your insane!

when you can put together a plausible scenario involving Eddie Griffin for Lamar Odom, then we can start talking.

#17 ROCKETBOOSTER, Nov 17, 2001
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Have nuts, be nuts.. it´s all the same.

#18 Legendary21, Nov 17, 2001

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verse, I realize this is just some prepubescent need to write something shocking simply to deviate from the mass opinion about Steve's abilities, and thereby make some obtuse point about Mobley's abilities...

But, when you 'keep it simple', it turns out that the masses are correct. Steve Francis is amazing. He's taking it to the hole (which you should praise given your collection of AI compliments). His rebounding is superb (rebounding over Shaq???). He's shooting 20~ times a night. He has an incredibly sound jumper, w/o ridiculous theatrics. And he is doing his job while trying to get his other teammates involved during the first 3 quarters.

Steve Francis is the man. He has heart. He will change this league in a way in which no 'typical pg' blueprint can forecast. Hell, if the guy had a frontcourt player to feed, he'd get 25 - 35 triple doubles a year.

Meanwhile, Odom... wait, who the **** is Lamar Odom? Isn't he that child that paints his face and waves guns at his girlfriend? Oh yeah... great idea.

#19 Achebe, Nov 17, 2001
verse Member

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jayz,

1st of all, i'm not a stat man. but those #s do show the ability he has.

2nd, we run the 3 guard lineup and steve is playing the TWO, not the THREE. he plays 2 positions. cat plays three positions, not steve.

3rd, lamar, on the court is just as dominant as steve.

4th, you say that nba players just shouldn't smoke weed. guess what? the large majority of them - including some rockets - do it.

5th, on the court, lamar odom is probably the singular reason the clip joint beat us last year. mcginnis had some good games, but lamar broke our backs. lamar has excellent handles, is 6'10, passes better than steve, shoots the midrange jumper, and has a better "natural feel" for the court than steve does. steve has more flair/showboating on the court, but lamar - talent wise - is steve's equal.

6th, steve's decision making leaves a lot to be desird. his penchant for dribbling too much, holding the ball in traps, going consistently to the baseline, etc. are NOT signs of a franchise goto player. oh yea, he also would rather have cuttino shoot the last shot than himself! WTF!?!!

7th, cuttino is the man on this team. he needs a "robin" - an all around player ala grant hill/scottie pippen along with a distributing, scoring threat from the pg spot. lamar is that "robin". dooling is that pg.

8th, our defense would be better. lamar - at 6'10" is a very good defender. dooling - at 6'5 is a good defender. cuttino - at 6'4ish is a good defender. oh yea...eddie griff @ the 4. um, that's a better defensive lineup that the present.

9th, our offense would be better, too. no more questions about who gets the lions share of the touches. cuttino is the first option. lamar is the 2nd option.

10th, the friendship lamar and cuttino have would end all chemistry questions off the court. the nature of lamar's game - especially is a pnr offense would be deadly on the court.

#20 verse, Nov 17, 2001

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