[Government Sanctioned Theft] IDF agrees to expansion of West Bank settlement

3 articles from Haaretz worth reading:

When Netanyahu wants to be like Putin

Excerpt:

In Israel, the life of a Palestinian is cheap

Excerpt:

How peace vanished from Israeli discourse

Excerpt:

I'm convinced that if there's ever going to be peace between Palestinians and Israelis, it will be largely a result of the Israeli populace standing up against its government and saying we've had enough. If newspaper columns are any indication of communal sentiment, there's lots of reasons to remain hopeful.

 

What about Palestinians standing up against Hamas?

 

Meanwhile, in Saudi-Arabia (I notice that someone's outrage about houses being built is more pronounced than about this):

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...port-article-1.990253?localLinksEnabled=false

Woman beheaded in Saudi Arabia for 'practicing witchcraft': report

She is 76th person executed there this year


Muslim women make their way to cast stones at a pillar, symbolizing the stoning of Satan, in a ritual called "Jamarat," in Mina, Saudi Arabia, near the holy city of Mecca.

A Saudi Arabian woman was beheaded for "practicing witchcraft," the nation's state-run news agency reported.

The woman, identified as Amina bint Abdulhalim Nassar, was beheaded Monday in the Middle Eastern country's Al Jawf province, according to the Egyptian news website, Bikya Masr.

She was the 76th person executed in Saudi Arabia this year, The Associated Press said. At least three of those killed were women.

Nassar charged sick people $800 a session and tricked them into thinking she could treat their illnesses, the London-based al-Hayat daily reported, according to AP.

The woman was arrested in 2009 and was in her 60s, the newspaper said.

 

Both of your posts avoided commenting on the actual thread topic or supporting articles posted herein.....

In any case, in response to your question I agree that Hamas' approach to diplomacy is unlikely to bring about peace. As to the question of whether or not Palestinians have adequately stood up against Hamas, then that becomes a difficult question to answer simply. The Palestinian Authority in its current form does not have Hamas representation, and are outspoken in their want for a two-state solution (they even filed for an independent state in UNESCO the UN). Hamas gets empowered when diplomacy decays, and the cycle is typically one of suspended violence, attempted diplomacy, failed diplomacy, violent response/aggression, and counter violence. This goes on for some period of time until violence subsides and the cycle starts all over again.

That said, I dont believe Palestinians unifying against Hamas has close to the same effect as Israelis coming together against the Israeli government. I personally believe if Palestinians came together against Hamas, it would do little to advance their cause at the negotiating table. Conversely, public opinion turning in Israel has a significant impact in advancing peace.

 

I will repeat what I have stated many times: I do not agree with the settlement policies of the Netanyahu government; I think they are unwise, and they will only serve to harden the stance on both sides.

 

And I will repeat what I have said many times.

The people of the Middle East want peace.

The politicians do not.

 

Unfortunately, I think that this is an idealistic view. The politicians are to a large extent a reflection of their population, otherwise they would not necessarily be in power. Do people want peace? Yes, but only at their terms. Many do not want peace if it is not exactly at their terms.

 

Stupid. Easy to blame "the more powerful countries". At the end of the day, the population of a country is responsible for its own destiny.

 

Unfortunately for your point, both Israel and the PA have elections. Hamas winning the parliamentary election a few years back kind of exposes the lie that the Palestinian people desire peace first. Israel electing hardliners exposes the lie that the Israeli people prioritize peace first. In neither case was it some outside entity controlling them, these were free and fair elections. The Palestinians elected a terrorist organization and the Israelis elected hardliners, exactly proving ATWs point that while they may want peace, more than that they want it on their own terms.

 

I kind of disagree. In the Palestinians case part of the reason Hamas won was because the PA had been corrupt and stealing the money entrusted to them to make the Palestinians lives better. In Israel's case many factions when and a coalition is formed. Israeli politicians are also good at manipulating events to help them seem more needed as hard liners than might actually be necessary.

 

So, according to you, Hamas was just a logical consequence to be elected, and Israeli politicians are exaggerating?

Hydra's assessment is exactly right.

 

Further evidence that the Israeli government is only interested in one thing:

Land, not peace.

 

No, I didn't say that it was a logical consequence. It shows how f'd up the Palestinian situation is that they would either have the corrupt PA or the less than peaceful Hamas as their leaders.

And if you are trying to act like I painted the Israelis darker than the Palestinians you need to go back and read it again.

Hydra doesn't have a post in this thread that I can see.

 

Well yes, but why does it seem like there are no sincere leaders who are willing to take steps toward peace...or why, at least, they are not getting enough votes (which leads back to the assessment that - to some extent - if the people really wanted peace, they would vote for someone else)?

 

There have to be two sides willing to move towards peace. Both sides are guilty of not doing it. Though I think the politicians are more at fault than the people. The people may have to factor many other things into their votes on both sides.