http://www.salon.com/mwt/wire/2001/03/13/girl_scout/index.html This is r****ded. ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
power corrupts Absolute power Corrupts Absolutely but a lil power turns folx into PRICKS!! Rocket River ------------------
So the Girl Scouts were, in fact, violating this ordinance and deserved their tickets. They managed to weasel out of it because the media started calling the police about it. What makes the Girl Scouts so special that they can sell in places other people can't? If there is an abuse of power here, it is that of the media threatening the police dept with bad publicity. ------------------ RealGM Gafford Art Artisan Cakes
The world would be a better place if girl scouts stopped selling their cookies on property with the property owner's permission. ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
Personally, I'm so sick and tired of youth fund raisers, I'm glad this happened. The girl scouts have been around forever, and I like their cookies, and I really don't mind having to run their gauntlet every time I walk out of a grocery store.....I just tell them I already bought them from my nieces. Buutttt...I'm still sick and tired of all of the youth fund raisers. Every friggen school in the world seems to have one now. I've seen pre-k moms dragging their tots around with those little brochures. It's the biggest racket in the world, but it's so hard to say no those people...especially if they are your co-workers. I wish the girl scouts no ill will, but the officers actions got some attention to this issue. Sure, the cops looked bad, but the Maj. was able to get his point across...."soliciting by youths in that area had gotten out of hand recently...." It's all part of the checks and balances we have in this game called life. ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
To be serious for a moment, it looks to me like they passed this ordinance because they felt there was a problem with youth soliciting in this area. That the Girl Scouts had permission from the restaurant is besides the point. If the only problem was that the parking lot peddlers were annoying the restaurant, they could have tried to deal with the problem with trespassing or loitering laws and wouldn't have to pass an ordinance. Seeing as they did pass it, those who supported it obviously wanted to stop exactly the activity that these Girl Scouts were engaging in -- and for the sake of the passers-by, not the restaurant. I don't want to argue the wisdom of passing the ordinance which does seem a little stupid to me (of course, I never walked through there). But this is an issue of the rule of law. Given that there is a rule, should we allow the Girl Scouts to flout it because they're the Girl Scouts? I'd prefer it if they obeyed the law like everyone else and didn't get preferential treatment. Policemen get to exercise some discretion in assigning tickets. The major did that in dismissing the tickets and that's his right. But the policeman who ticketed them also employed that discretion within the confines of his power and duty and I don't see any reason he should be reproached for doing so. ------------------ RealGM Gafford Art Artisan Cakes
Whats so wrong about them ticketing them? How about they were on private property with permission? When you get in an accident on a grocery stores property, the cops always have some BS about it being private property and they can't give tickets or something like that. Its one thing if you get visited every night on your own property, but its different if you run into them at the grocery store. If your biggest problem of the day has to deal with running into girl scouts at the grocery store, lets please trade lives! What the hell, ban their asses!!! ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
The cops either have the power to enforce the ordinance in that parking lot or they don't. If they can't give tickets to Girl Scouts for soliciting then they can't give tickets to anyone else either. The permission of the landowner doesn't mean anything in regards to the enforcement of this rule. What the Girl Scouts needed was permission from the City. The restaurant has no power or authority here. If it was a trespassing law they were enforcing then the owner would have a say. But this ordinance is not for trespassing, but for unlawful solicitation in neighborhoods. In other words, this ordinance was not passed to protect business-owners but residents who are the targets of these solicitations. If these were little black kids selling shoe-shines with the permission of the restaurant owner, this law would apply. So why not apply it to Girl Scouts? And, Space Ghost, this is not about my being annoyed with solicitors. I'm not annoyed by them. I'm just sick of preferential treatment and immunity to the law being extended to the privileged -- which is certainly what is happening with the Girl Scouts here. It seems to me that some people are too ready to bash the police for anything that seems like it might be corruption or abuse of power. I think it is very plain that the policeman did not abuse his power at all, but rather applied the law in the manner in which it was meant to be applied. Because it was applied to a non-profit organization, with a very good reputation and populated by very non-threatening little girls, it seems a bit borish. But, if Dekalb County wants to make an exception for these people, they need to write it into the law and not expect their law enforcement officers to apply prejudices in the law's application. ------------------ RealGM Gafford Art Artisan Cakes
Personally, I think it would make me more mad if the Girl Scouts were allowed to sell their cookies while other groups or individuals were not allowed to solicit in the same area. The law may well be stupid, but as long as it's there, it should be enforced uniformly (I don't know that it is or isn't). Selective enforcement and special treatment of certain groups riles me more than (apparently uniform) enforcement of a silly law. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
Juan, Im not much of a police basher, but did they really need to go over there and give them a ticket? Could they not have walked up there and told them he would ticket them if they didn't go home? Cops are there to maintain peace and enforce the law, not to find every excuse to bring in an extra buck to the city. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
It is a good point that the policeman did not have to ticket the troupe; he could have just told them to go elsewhere and threaten a ticketing. Certainly, he wasn't being as nice as one could be. ------------------ RealGM Gafford Art Artisan Cakes
And everytime I get pulled over for speeding, the officer could give me a warning, but they never do. The story says that soliciting by youth groups had gotten out of hand in that neighborhood recently. For all we know, there were several groups that were warned prior to these tickets finally being issued. How long to you want the police to keep giving warnings to youth groups before issuing tickets and enforcing the law? Will the next group that comes through and violates the law get the same treatment by the police (having the tickets torn up) or perhaps not ticketed at all? Or will the police not "love" the next group as much as the Girl Scouts and enforce the law against them? And on a Girl Scouts-related side note, I still think it's weird that the Girl Scout Council office in Amarillo, Texas is right next door to a strip club. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
First off, nobodys life is being indangered. Second, most people that get caught for speeding deserved it. When I have gotten mine, I took it w/out a complaint because I always speed and I knew the law. There was one time I got busted on a downhill which pissed me off to no ends because I was not given a chance to slow down (although I was still speeding in the previous speed zone) ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
Nobody's life is being endangered if I drive 6mph over the speed limit on US287 at 2pm when no other vehicles are on the road. And how would I deserve a ticket for breaking the law (speeding) moreso than a youth group breaking the law in a different way? Don't all lawbreakers deserve to be punished? If we're going to make exceptions for this group to be able to flout the law, why not make an exception for me to be able to break the law (especially since I have extra training in driving beyond what the average person does having completed a high speed driving course recently). Or if putting someone's life in danger is the criteria (which is debatable in regards to speeding. A few years ago, I would get a ticket for going over 55mph on US287, now it's legal to go 70mph on US287. So, how was I a danget to others at 60mph a few years ago and not a danger at 70mph today on the exact same road?), why shouldn't the police simply give warnings to people who drive with an expired license plate. They aren't putting anyone's lives in danger by forgetting to get a new sticker. They should just give warnings to everyone and not write a single ticket for that. No one's life is in danger if I drive with expired license plates. We have laws for a reason. There was some reason why the city passed this law. If the police then say that certain groups can violate the law because the police "love" those groups, they've then decided to selectively enforce a LAW based on whether those groups (or their ideas) are popular or not. If I went into that same neighborhood selling T-Shirts that said "F**K The Police!" on them, would I get a warning (or get my tickets torn up later)? Selective enforcement of laws goes against some very core ideas in the Constitution (things like the Equal Protection Clause, for example). Why should the Girl Scouts be allowed to flaunt the law unless everyone else is allowed to flaunt the same law? ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
The world would be a better place if people obeyed the ****ing law instead of deciding that, since they didn't like the law, they'd just ignore it. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to go drink a quart of vodka and do some high-speed driving. (NOTE: YES, I KNOW THAT NO ONE'S LIFE WAS ENDANGERED BY THE ****ING GIRL SCOUTS SELLING THEIR STUPID ****ING COOKIES. I AM JUST POINTING OUT THAT IF YOU SET A PRECEDENT BY ALLOWING PEOPLE TO BREAK LAWS THAT INCONVENIENCE THEM, SOME OF US WOULD BREAK LAWS THAT EXIST FOR A REASON. IT IS NOT UP TO US TO DECIDE WHICH LAWS WE WANT TO FOLLOW AND WHICH WE WANT TO BREAK) ------------------ Things are tough all over, I know what you mean... --Damon Johnson
The world is a screwed up place when people love a law that gives Girl Scouts tickets for selling cookies! Law? It's a youth fundraiser! No wonder kids are going crazy today, now we're giving them tickets for selling Girl Scout cookies! Look at how ridiculous this is! Does that mean we have to start ticketing kids who have lemonade stands as well? How kids who use car washes as fundraisers? Unbelievable! ------------------ The Heart of a Champion still beats. . .
The police have to enforce the laws equally. Soliciting had been a problem in the area -- and residents wanted that law enforced. If the police don't enforce the ordinance with everyone, the next group that does get a ticket will have a good case for discrimination. I'm a huge fan of the Girl Scouts -- they do a lot of good. This country would be a better place if more youth joined organizations like the Boy and Girl Scouts. But, they were in the wrong, and the police were just doing their job. The one cop who deserves to be reprimanded in this case is the Major who tore up the tickets. He destroyed any credibility with his officers, and eroded the ability of his officers to enforce this and other laws. He should have left it up to the court, which does have discretion, to make that decision. (A court probably would have dismissed it.) My one consolation is that he is the one who will have to live with all of the phone calls from people with other 'good reasons' for doing things. I'd also like to point out that the solution was easy -- the girl scouts weren't ticketed for selling cookies, they were ticketed for doing so without a permit. All they have to do to keep selling cookies is to get a permit. FYI -- selling on the property of a closed business was a problem in Houston -- and they don't allow it. Prime example is the Old K-Mart on Highway 6, which practically became a flea market for ^(&%($ beanie babies, among other things. The property owner didn't care (I don't think they could be located), but the city won't allow people to do this. ------------------ Stay Cool...
yeah! yeah! yeah! Equal law enforcement my ass. I never use my blinker to switch lanes in front of cops and the only reason I got a ticket for doing it was reckless driving.(received two tickets on the same citation for my blinker) I could find an exception to each law, but my point was not going 6mph over on the freeway speed limit, but speeding on any road at any rate. And BrainK, it IS up to us to determine which laws we want to follow or which ones to break, but just be prepared to pay the concequences! ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last! [This message has been edited by Space Ghost (edited March 14, 2001).]
Isn't that the point? Shouldn't the Girl Scouts have just accepted the ticket instead of asking for preferential treatment? ------------------ Brought to you by the letter M.
