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Gore on Iraq

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rimrocker, Sep 23, 2002.

  1. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Gore doesn't seem philosophically opposed to toppling Saddam, but does question the basic path Bush seems to have chosen, including the preemption doctrine.

    washingtonpost.com
    Gore Challenges Bush's Iraq Policy


    By Dan Balz
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Monday, September 23, 2002; 4:50 PM


    Former vice president Al Gore sharply challenged President Bush on Iraq this afternoon, warning that the administration's apparent determination to launch military action to dislodge Saddam Hussein will "seriously damage" efforts to win the war on terrorism and "weaken our ability to lead the world."

    In the most forceful critique of the administration by any leading Democrat, Gore challenged the administration's new doctrine of preemption, gave voice to critics who question the political timing of the administration's push for action in Congress and the United Nations and argued that Bush has shifted focus toward Iraq because the hunt for Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda terrorists has bogged down.

    Gore's critique, delivered before the Commonwealth Club of San Francisco, put him at odds with most of the other possible 2004 Democratic presidential candidates, who have been generally to strongly supportive of Bush on Iraq. A text of the speech was made available in Washington.

    Gore, who last winter said the war on terrorism would require "a final reckoning" with Saddam Hussein, restated his belief that the Iraqi leader is a potential menace to the world. But he argued that even if the United States has the theoretical right to move unilaterally against Iraq, such a course could have disastrous consequences for America's standing in the world.

    "I am deeply concerned that the policy we are presently following with respect to Iraq has the potential to seriously damage our ability to win the war against terrorism and to weaken our ability to lead the world in this new century," he said.

    Gore said the war on terrorism requires a multilateral coalition that likely would be shattered by anything approaching unilateral action against Iraq. He also chided the administration for trying to start a new war without finishing the job of hunting down those responsible for the attacks of last Sept. 11 or of stabilizing a post-Taliban Afghanistan.

    "I do not believe we should allow ourselves to be distracted from this urgent task simply because it is proving to be more difficult and lengthy than predicted," he said. "Great nations persevere and then prevail. They do not jump from one unfinished task to another."

    Gore said Hussein "does pose a serious threat" to stability in the Persian Gulf and urged the administration to take the time to assemble an international coalition, much as Bush's father did before launching a war against Iraq in 1991. Whatever good will the United States created in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks has been put in jeopardy by the administration's concentration on Iraq, he added.

    Noting that in 1991 he voted for the resolution authorizing Bush's father to wage war, one of a handful of Democrats in the Senate to do so, Gore argued that current UN resolutions are enough to justify action against Hussein for being in violation of those resolution. But he said the administration's saber rattling and talk of preemption and acting without broad international support is the wrong course.

    Gore urged Congress to narrow the scope of the draft resolution Bush submitted last week and said lawmakers should also ask Bush to explain why unilateral action is justified, to seek more support from the United Nations and to outline in more detail what its post-Hussein plans are for reconstruction and stability in Iraq.

    On the doctrine of preemption, Gore said the danger is that other nations will assume the same right as that asserted by the administration, and that the "rule of law will quickly be replaced by the reign of fear."
     
  2. Refman

    Refman Member

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    All of this from a guy who claims that the internal combustion engine is more dangerous than the threat we will ever face of military action and who claimed to have invented the Internet.

    Hi Al, I'm reality...have we met?
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    All of this from a guy who claims that the internal combustion engine is more dangerous than the threat we will ever face of military action and who claimed to have invented the Internet.

    Never heard the first one - what exactly did he say? We debunked the latter one on here last week.
     
  4. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    Bush backers should be careful about mocking the words of other politicians. No politician -- not even Quayle -- has been so roundly or rightly mocked for the stupid things he's said as has Bush.

    Gore's point about the internal combustion engine is in line with his strong positions on the environment. And he has never been weak on issues of war or military. Think about your own guy before you mock Gore. I doubt Bush can pronounce combustion.

    I'm impressed with Gore's balls here. He's not taking the popular position and he's not being careful. He's standing up to a popular president at a time when others in his party are too scared to do so. If he intends to continue speaking truth to power, he has my support in 04.
     
  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    I truly take this big public statement to mean that he will indeed run in 2004. Even though I agree with his points (and, as a scientist, I even agree with the point about global warming, sorry to say), I will be disappointed to see him run again. I think he's a terrible campaigner. If the 'patriot act' and whatever strange edicts that follow it actually permit general elections in 2004, I hope Gore gets knocked out in the primaries by a more charismatic Dem. upstart. Edwards from NC maybe? :(
     
  6. SmeggySmeg

    SmeggySmeg Member

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    huh ..... the environment an issue

    dude must be a on big dose of the wacky weed
     
  7. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    I would think Republicans would be happy to hear that Gore is a "leading" Democrat.
     
  8. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    as are the democrats, since you know, he got more votes and everything the last go around. :D
     
  9. X-PAC

    X-PAC Member

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    Okay we must be mistaken here. Is this not the same Mr. Gore that was the Vice President of the United States during which three terrorist acts were committed? My god, there was the first Trade Center attack which should had at least got this administration's attention as far as radical islamists go. Then you had the Embassy bombings in Africa which Bin Laden was involved with. And then we have the Cole in 2000 again the work of Bin Laden. This is a man that has been on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list since 99'. What actions were taken to counter Bin Laden's attacks? A few cruise missiles on Afghan training camps? A LOT more should and could had been done to protect the homeland. But it was barely an issue during an eight year term. This is not acceptable. Think about Bush before we mock Gore's stance? What stance would you be referring to as far as military force goes? His support of Desert Storm? Kosovo? Bush not only is chasing the enemy and wearing him down but he liberated an oppressed people and will do so again in Iraq. Bush is the more worthy candidate to run this country in war time. I believe Bush here, if anyone, is the man with the balls to forewarn the U.N. to grow a backbone on the Iraq issue or he will defeat the enemy himself. This is not a time to play political cat and mouse with the U.N. again. We have played that game before. Iraq continues to thumb their nose at not only the UN but the US and our very well-being. Saddam has proven he is an opponent of peace and prosperity in the middle-east and the world. It is time to place words behind us and use force to relieve a people and a world of a malevolent dictator. It seems for Gore it is much easier to criticize than to act. Gore had his day. This country moves on.
     
  10. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    O.K. now I am certain Gore is the Anti-Christ....He is evil incarnation ode damnation...
     
  11. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    The NY Times weighs in. (my bold)

    Gore Calls Bush's Policy a Failure on Several Fronts
    By DEAN E. MURPHY


    AN FRANCISCO, Sept. 23 — Former Vice President Al Gore accused the Bush administration today of weakening the war on terrorism by turning the country's attention to Saddam Hussein. He also said the Congressional resolution on Iraq sought by President Bush was too broad and did not do enough to seek international support for a possible military strike.

    "From the outset, the administration has operated in a manner calculated to please the portion of its base that occupies the far right, at the expense of the solidarity among all of us as Americans and solidarity between our country and our allies," Mr. Gore said.

    Mr. Gore said that the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 had yet to be avenged and that Mr. Bush's approach would make it more difficult to punish those who were responsible. He suggested that the administration had become distracted by Iraq because Mr. Hussein was an easier target than Al Qaeda.

    Mr. Gore seemed careful not to minimize the threat posed by Mr. Hussein, at one point describing him as "an evil man." He pointed out that as a senator he supported the Gulf war resolution in 1991. But he harshly criticized Mr. Bush's willingness to go it alone against Iraq, especially since the war on terrorism was unfinished.

    "It is impossible to succeed against terrorism unless we have secured the continuing, sustained cooperation of many nations," Mr. Gore said. "And here's one of my central points. Our ability to secure that kind of multilateral cooperation in the war against terrorism can be severely damaged in the way we go about undertaking unilateral action against Iraq."

    In one of his strongest assessments of Mr. Bush, Mr. Gore said the administration had wasted an opportunity to rally international support after the attacks. He cited new instances of anti-Americanism even among traditional allies of the United States, including in this week's national elections in Germany.

    "In the immediate aftermath of Sept. 11, more than a year ago, we had an enormous reservoir of good will and sympathy and shared resolve all over the world," Mr. Gore said. "That has been squandered in a year's time and replaced with great anxiety all around the world, not primarily about what the terrorist networks are going to do, but about what we're going to do."

    Republicans reacted angrily, accusing Mr. Gore of using the Iraqi situation for political advantage.

    "It seems to be a speech that was more appropriate for a political hack than a presidential candidate, by someone who clearly failed to recognize leadership," said Jim Dyke, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee. "There's clearly a lot of people stepping forward with productive solutions, productive ideas, as far as how to address the problem that face us, and this seems to be someone content to stand on the sidelines and throw rocks."

    Mr. Gore made the speech to the Commonwealth Club of California on short notice and before a largely partisan crowd of about 450. Some welcomed him to the lectern by humming "Hail to the Chief." Mr. Gore, who took California by a large margin in the 2000 presidential election, responded by telling jokes about the voting problems in the Florida primary this month and remarking about how much he likes California.

    Mr. Gore's speech came under increasingly scrutiny by Democrats over whether he would run for president again in 2004. Until today, he has kept a low profile over the past two weeks as other potential Democratic presidential contenders have offered their views on Iraq.

    His appearance here suggested a shift in positioning by Mr. Gore, who has for 10 years portrayed himself as a moderate, particularly when it comes to issues of foreign policy, and repeatedly invoked his 1991 vote on the gulf war resolution as a way of distinguishing himself from the rest of his party.

    Asked pointedly about his ambitions, Mr. Gore said he would not decide on whether to seek the presidency again until the end of the year. After the speech, he said that his motivation in criticizing Mr. Bush was not related to electoral politics. Rather, he said, he hoped to encourage a greater national debate about the war on terrorism and Mr. Bush's proposed policy of pre-emptive strikes against enemies like Iraq.

    "The intention is to present what I think is a better course of action for our country, and to advance debate on a real important challenge that we face as a country," Mr. Gore said.

    Yet with most prominent Democrats lining up behind President Bush on Iraq, Mr. Gore was certain to attract attention by taking a contrary view. Copies of his speech were handed out to reporters by a former California campaign worker and the choice of venue — a friendly crowd in a friendly state — invited speculation about his future.

    Mr. Gore was asked after the speech whether his remarks were out of step with the Democratic Party.

    "I don't know and I don't really care, in the sense I am going to do and say what I think is right," he said. "I was accused of being out of step with my party back in 1991 when I supported the Persian Gulf war resolution. A lot of people who criticized that later came to believe that was the right decision."

    Programming officials with the Commonwealth Club, which is a nonpartisan organization founded in 1903 that has also recently featured speeches by President Bush and Vice President Cheney, said that aides to Mr. Gore expressed an interest in the club because of its long history of presenting important public figures. The Gore aides specifically mentioned an appearance before the group by Franklin D. Roosevelt, a club official said.
     
  12. X-PAC

    X-PAC Member

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    I believe the previous administration bears some accountability on the failure to get Bin Laden when he was most vulnerable. The very idea to claim that this administration was "obsessed" on finding Bin Laden is outrageous to say the least. Avenging the death of Americans is no laughing matter.
     
  13. Nomar

    Nomar Member

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    People are surprised about this?

    Gore, like most democrats, are big p*****s when it comes to foreign policy. More concerned with protecting the interests of others rather than doing what is best for Americans. All in the name of human rights.

    I say **** human rights. If it comes down to me dying, or a million people somewhere else, it better not be me.
     
  14. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    I would say that's a pretty accurate and comprehensive summary of the moral position of the pro-invasion without question group.
     
  15. Stevie Francis

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    yeah thats the real president speaking right there. He is clearly the better leader for us, but florida fu*ed it up so we are stuck with a guy who barley scored a 1200 on hi SAT.
     
  16. Nomar

    Nomar Member

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    MacBeth - Are you willing to die for your moral integrity?
     
  17. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    All hail Nomar. :rolleyes: The weekend's binge drinking has clearly sharpened your wits to an eloquent scalpel. As for "p*****s," I guess you'd have to put General H. Norman Schwarzkopf in that category, since he's against unilateral action also. As for you dying, let's all hope you and your classmates don't end up getting drafted for this big adventure versus Saddam's empty aluminum pipes.

    X-PAC and Roxran, do the views expressed by Nomar at all resonate with your own pro-Bush views? From what I've heard from friends all 'round the planet, Nomar is pretty much the new image of "the American" in the eyes of the world. That's not ideal, if you ask me, but maybe it's accurate.
     
    #17 B-Bob, Sep 24, 2002
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2002
  18. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    If you aren't, Nomar, it ain't moral integrity.
     
  19. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Ever notice that those with the greatest experience in the related fields, ie Schwarzkopf & Powell (military/strategic-political situation), CIA ( intel) etc. are the ones most strongly against Bush's unilateral action stance? Wonder why that is....
     
  20. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    Because they don't live in a fantasy world where they get to be a tough little hobbit w/ 18 hit points?
     

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