I have been a loyal supporter of Houston teams for over half my life, but year after year I watch the teams I love make one bad personell move after another. The Rockets are the least guity of them all though. I thought they were finally on the right track going out and getting Steve, but if Demarr Johnson is available and they dont get him I'm bailing I swear. Combined with Francise and Mobley they would be nasty. Oh yeah Anderson is garbage, like Pippen he will never really be a Rocket, send him back to Utah. ------------------
Ron, don't mean to be harsh, but other than acquiring Pippen, name on bad personnel move we've made recently. Answer? None. Every year the past few seasons we make the best moves. Also, saying Anderson is garbage basically takes away any credibility from your post. He was our only player to play in all 82 games, start them all, and he always did those little things even if he wasn't scoring to help us win. If we didn't have Shandon we might have been 20-62 instead of 34-48. ------------------ Cheaters never win. Unless you play for LA that is.
The Cat-So if we didn't have Shandon, we'd get Swift? ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
Nike- yeah we might, but I'd rather have Shandon and Dermarr both than Swift, so it's all worth it in the long run you know. But seriously, I do think we would have been right up there with the Bulls and Clippers in terms of records without Shandon. He made a big difference. ------------------ Cheaters never win. Unless you play for LA that is.
Dare I say it, but how about picking up Charles Barkley. I love CB but giving up Cassell and Horry was a mistake in the long run. Desperate moves are usually disastrous and other than the enjoyment of having Sir Charles around for a couple of years, there was not much advantage gained on the court. Also, if it is true, as I have heard, that last year we could have had Rasheed Wallace for Pippen and didn't do the deal-- BIG MISTAKE! Otherwise, Roderick Rhodes looked like a good pick for a few months. Now he is out of the league, I guess. Lastly, where is Sam Mack when you need him? ------------------ There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't.
4chuckie, I believe RichRocket is referring to the rumors on this BBS last summer about Wallace for Pippen. That being said and of course with the benefit of hindsight, Wallace would have been a huge aquisition in Houston. Even though we had CB and Dream as you said, they both were very limited this year due to injuries (one of them career ending ). That of course, is why Kenny Thomas saw so much playing time. Also, ask yourself whether you would rather have Cato, Rogers, and 4 other scrubs (3 of which you (being the Rockets' management) would for some reason inexplicably waive despite your 3 available injured reserve spots (can you tell that I wasn't too happy with cutting all those players in the preseason? )), or Wallace + 1 or 2 of possibly the same scrubs? But the past is the past, so I'm going to insert this one into the "Who cares now?" file and look forward to seeing what we will do this summer ------------------ [This message has been edited by Launch Pad (edited June 20, 2000).]
How in the world can you say Shandon is garbage? As a Rocket fan, I take offense to that. He was our best defender, most consistent, hardest working player we had last year. You must not have seen too many games. ------------------
Houston has made personnel mistakes in past years. The two biggest were drafting McCrae instead of Drexler and not trading Sampson when he was at his peak. The twin towers were not working out, and they could have received Jordan and Drexler in one trade, and James Worthy, Byron Scott and a few draft choices in another. Of course, noone knew that his knees would give out when they did. But since Alexander has come into the picture, they have done very well. Rhoderick Rhodes was #24 in a bad draft. That wasn't a bad personnel move. Is there anyone else after #16 that is still anywhere? At least Rhoderick had a chance, especially in defensing Jordan. Even though I've wondered about the Barkley trade, I wouldn't consider it a bad personnel move. I've been ambivalent about the trade, since the chemistry between Drexler and Pippen was bad, and we'd probably still have them both on board through this last year. But we wouldn't have Francis or Anderson right now either for rebuilding. And I don't believe that this team would have won it all, just as Pippen didn't take Portland all the way, even though they had better talent. The Dream just didn't have it the last couple years. Pip was a great trade for Roy Rogers. That was a steal. Even though Pip screwed us in the deal at the end, we ended up getting Cato, the Wizard and Carlos Rogers basically for Roy Rogers. That was good for rebuilding. In my understanding, the Rockets discussed a trade for Pip involving Rasheed Wallace, but were never offered him by Portland. Once Pip spoke up his negative crap, he was totally pulled out of the conversations. For the last few years, Houston has done some amazing personnel moves. In '93, they picked Cassell at #24 in the draft. Ervin Johnson is the only other player still playing after #11 in that draft. We also traded a #2 draft pick to Portland for Mario Ellie. Cassell played as a rookie, and we won the NBA championship for the first time. In '94, we traded Thorpe for Clyde Drexler, picked up Kevin Willis as a FA, found Mario Ellie and Chuckie Brown from the CBA and won the championship again. In '95, we got a ton of injuries, and got beat by Seattle. Our weakness at PG and PF was a bad matchup to them. So in '96, we traded for Barkley to solve that problem, so we could get past Seattle in the championships, which we did. We also drafted Othella Harrington and Randy Livingston in the second round, both of who are playing for other teams. We found Matt Maloney in the CBA, who started for us, and was named to the All Rookie second team. We signed Kevin Willis as a FA, then later traded him for a couple picks, one of whom was Dickerson, who was the primary figure in the Francis trade. We also signed Eddie Johnson, who played great. Unfortunately, we didn't have a solution to Karl Malone and Utah ended up in the Finals instead of us. In '97, we grabbed Rhoderick Rhodes who had potential, but there weren't very many good players that year. But we went to the Conference Finals against Utah again, and Barkely got injured, and so Utah went to the Finals again. In '98, we got Pippen for Rogers, but he turned out to not have heart, nor was a leader. We lost in the first round of the playoffs against and emerging Shaq. We also drafted Dickerson in the first round, and Mobely in the second. We did waste away the Turkcan pick, and should have taken Lewis instead, but we'll still see how that turns out in the next couple years, when we get the Detroit pick back. Bryce Drew was not a bad pick, and will be good trade bait. Maybe Al Harrington might have been a better pick, but someone could really use Drew. Once we picked up Francis, he was expendable. In '99, we traded Pippen for 3 building blocks in Cato, Wizard, and Rogers. Considering we got Pippen for Rogers, we ended up pretty well, but of course, if we could have moved on the trade earlier, before Pippen opened his big mouth, we might have gotten someone like Grant, J.Oneal, or maybe Wallace, if we could have sweetened the pot. But of course, we got Francis, our star of the future, and even picked up Kenny Thomas, an incredible pick at #22. We also stole Moochie Norris out of the CBA, making Drew expendable. And of course, we somehow signed Anderson for well below what he was worth in the market. So, all in all, the Rockets keep making personnel moves that others don't believe can happen. We make excellent draft picks, even though we are almost always picking late due to being in the playoffs 12 straight years. We somehow collect role players and group them together to trade them for stars, as in Drexler, Barkley and Francis. We grab good players out of the CBA, like Ellie, Maloney and Norris. Houston is known for being a great place to play, so we continue to pick up good FAs, like Willis and Anderson. So, I don't believe Houston will screw up this draft pick. They make great personnel moves time after time. I expect we'll either get Miller, Johnson, Stephenson or Moiso with the #9 pick, or take Alexander and trade him for someone, or find a way to trade up to get Miles or Swift. I expect us to trade Drew, Cato, Rogers and our exception to pick up someone like Kandi and/or Croshere. We'll get 2 or 3 players this year to further build our future championship team. After Dream retires, we'll pick up a big FA for the frontcourt, and we should get a good center in next year's draft. In a few years, after the Shaq era, Francis will lead us to another championship, I hope. We've been there, so now we won't be satisfied until we do what it takes get get back. ------------------ the more I know, the more I know I don't know...
oeilpere, How did you get Odom in your above scenario. Odom was picked 4th and the Toronto deal only included the 5th pick. Odom would have been off the board already. ------------------
The proposed Pippen-Wallace deal was from the 1998-99 season when Pippen wasn't doing his job here and Wallace was still spelling Grant instead of dominating the opposition. Horry and Cassell will still be in the NBA and contributing for 5 more years now that CB is gone. Don't get me wrong; I love CB, but I think the Rockets paid too dearly for him. I don't really think he was that good a fit for us except for his rebounding prowess: weak defense and back into 'em offense. And Wallace will long be around when Pippen retires. I completely agree that neither Horry nor Cassell is CB. But the CB you talk about was the CB from age 22 to 32. We got the 35 YO CB and there's all the difference. That's the burden of the personnel people: to make deals that turn out well and not to sell out the future. Without the lightning strikes of garnering Francis and discovering Mobely in Round 2, this francise would be in deep trouble. ------------------ There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't.
Bad personnel moves? The Rockets? Ever hear of teams like: LA Clippers? Dallas Mavericks? Golden State Warriors? ------------------ The Wizard when asked about his WWJD bracelet: "It's my good luck charm. It stands for 'Walt Williams Just Doin' it'."
Willis came aboard the same time that CB4 was acquired in the Phoenix trade. Mango ------------------ Live long and prosper. Donate blood! Now...back to updating The Serious Police Files.
if rasheed wallace was offered for scottie pippen and the rockets chose to take cato and williams over that deal then i would have to say that the rockets GM is crazy. i care don't if we do have a good power forward in barkley, we still make that deal.
The proposed Pippen-Wallace deal was from the 1998-99 season when Pippen wasn't doing his job here and Wallace was still spelling Grant instead of dominating the opposition. That deal was never on the table during the offseason when Pippen was being shopped. You cannot expect the Rockets to move Pippen after only having him on the team for less than 50 games during a short season. Plus, I dont remember this ever being discussed during season as you are saying it was. The Pippen trade talk started after the season. Someone please fill me in if I have this wrong, but I have no recollection of a Wallace-Pippen discussion IN SEASON. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
The Pippen for Wallace deal was mentioned during the Portland-LA series by one of the color guys. I posted it here before, asking if anyone knew anything about it, because it was news to me. I never saw any comment on it here. Whenever it was offered, AS IT TURNS OUT, the Rockets should have taken it. Ah, the luxury of hindsight! We got that one wrong-- if indeed it was ever really offered. One (maybe) naive observation: it seems like the Rockets don't hold onto their young talent for very long. Maybe all NBA teams have such a revolving door. Just look at Sherlock's great brief history of Rocket personnel moves and see all of the young guys who have come and gone. Which acquired young talent is still here from the past 5 years? NOBODY except Mobes and Drew And the speculation is rampant that Mobely, KT, and Bryce Drew will move on. That is not a good indication to me. Someone who is more astute, tell me, are all NBA team rosters in such a continuous flux? I miss the days when this was a team league not a star league. ------------------ There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't.
If indeed that Pippen deal was offered, which I seriously doubt, then it could be classified as a mistake by some. However, the break off between Pippen Barkley did not occur till the offseason, and the Rockets were still gunning for a ring. You have to remember that was a short season, 50 games, and the common belief among pretty much everyone after 10 games or so was that Pippen just needed time to meld into the system. Its very easy saying the deal should have been made now, but did you think at the time? If that deal was made during the season that early, the fans would have been angered. Anyone can look from the future and say "oh ya we should have made that deal." The doubts did not start creeping in until Pippen started complaining to the media. I dont have a problem with the Rockets moving their "young players" such as Michael Dickerson, Othella Harrington and possibly Kenny Thomas and Bryce Drew this season. I am always for the pro-active approach and appreciate it when teams employ that. If you can get better you do that. If you dont adopt that type of attitude, you get stuck in mediocrity. This is also the reason I have no problem with the Barkley deal. The Rockets had a chance to go for a ring and took it. It did not work out, but you have to take the risk. Plus, does anyone seriously think a championship team could be built around a nucleus of Sam Cassell and Robert Horry? The Rockets would have had to commit a significant chunk of cap room to Robert Horry and Sam Cassell to keep them and that would not have been conducive to re-building. I feel much better with Steve Francis as the player running the show than Sam Cassell. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
I'm all for being proactive, too. It's just that they have very little continuity from year to year. I'm not saying that Horry and Cassell were or should be centerpieces, but they could be a part of the regular game rotation of EVERY NBA TEAM. Those kind of guys you need to hang onto. Horry was a good enough PF/SF to win two championships with why not more. Oh yeah, he just got another one! ------------------ There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't.
You could have put any sf in the league in horry's place and the Laker's still win. He was Rice's backup, and didn't Fox get alot of Pt at sf ? Also, didnt AC green start. I give no credit to Horry for this championship, whereas he was an integral part of houston's championship. ------------------ "Don't they get cable in Canada ?" Keith olbermann, after watching hakeem block terry catledge's shot 5 times.
Horry was a good enough PF/SF to win two championships with why not more. Oh yeah, he just got another one! oh yeah, he was just playing on a team that featured Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant and Glen Rice. Hmmmm, where can I get an overpaid backup at the rate of 7 yrs 35 mil on my team to gravy train a championship? You know I think I'd really like to eat up a bunch of cap space on him instead of having cap flexibility. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
