OK. It's a little hard for me to comment on this specifically, since I haven't seen any of the games this season. I do, however, know that there are several guys who post on this board who have good basketball knowledge, and can hopefully fill in the gaps. Firstly, getting the ball to the post isn't as easy as everyone seems to be assuming. This is evidenced by Hakeem's comments about the difference in coaching from Houston to Toronto. The post man has to try to seal off the player guarding him as much as possible. This is something that Dream did well. How has Yao been doing at this? Clearly, with a player of Yao's size, he's going to be fronted a lot, with the mismatchs he faces. There are two keys to fronting a post player effectively: alert weak-side help, that is active and ready to come over for the lob, and jamming the player making the entry pass, not giving him the room to effectively get the ball in. How have the Rockets' opponents been at doing this? Making good entry passes is also a skill. The championship teams had some players who were excellent (in particular Robert Horry, whose size was also an advantage) at getting Hakeem the ball. Establishing an understanding between the post player and passer is crucial. This is something I hope the Rockets are working on in practices. As our guards learn and develop understandings, Yao's touches on offense will steadily increase, regardless of the defensive look the opposing coach throws at us. I hope that there are some people reading this who can comment on the questions I've got here, and perhaps have some sensible discussion on this topic rather than "Get Yao the damn ball"
Lobbing is a effective thing and I really did wish the rockets used it more at the earlier of the season. However, I remember a painful memory near the end of Hakeem's career after his surgery where he just doesn't jump as explosively in which the entry lob becomes very diffictult and causes a lot of turnovers. I'm a big Ming supporter but I don't think the lack of entry passes are entirely the guards fault. Looking at the turnovers earlier in the game the lob pass is more difficut if Yao Ming doesn't explode to the ball since NBA has a ton of players with explosive jumping abilities, it's not as easy as it sounds. I really wish we run more of a pick and roll offense using Yao like Malone and Stockton or Cwebb in Sac. That way Yao gets the ball more. Yao can hit that outside shot, sure his FG will go down some what but I think he will definite get more touches and be effective. But setting picks will also fatigue Yao a lot faster so i don't know if it's the best idea as off right now.
I refuse to believe that professional basketball players cannot with some regularity get the basketball to the center with a scoring opportunity. Look at some of the dominant NBA scorers in history: Jabbar, Chamberlain, Shaq, Malone (lots of points in the paint). The NBA only "fronts" players with double-teams. That means someone is open. Francis' and Mobely's scoring opportunities will only ease as Ming's scoring average goes up. How hard is that to understand and/or take advantage of?
i heard rudy -t say in his talkshow that was posted here, that yao does not want that many touches. so i am assuming that from this info, as well as what his momma was sayin, that yao is tired. it is not that much of a stretch, the nba is extremely tough on the body, if your not used to it and train for it, and he has been playin' ball since, like the late 60's. no rest, and no breaks, the boy is tired. 2 cents.
i think some of the difficulty with getting yao the ball in the post goes back to his lack of upper body strength. once he develops that he will be able to get position better. also everyone on the team seems to have trouble getting the ball to him. it really makes you realize how nice it was to have a guy like horry for dream. he made the entry pass look so easy, but the guys on our team make it look so damn hard. lots of guys in the league can't throw a decent entry pass anymore because there are no more centers to throw them to. perhaps once yao gets more comfortable as the go to guy then rudy should start drilling the rockets on how to throw an entry pass. one last thing...yao just doesn't look that comfortable getting the ball more than 10 to 12 feet away from the basket. he cant muscle in to the basket that well and his jumper isn't great when he is defended. he just needs time to develop that and we can't expect him to score like dream did in the post just because yao has a nice touch. once he becomes more comfortable with defenses and gains strength then we should start to expect that. bottom line yao simply is not developed enough to be a go to guy right now.
I really think there's a lot to this. Did anyone see the shots from the Rockets locker room before tip-off? They showed Yao taking his shirt off -- the man had no pecs. . I mean none -- his chest was flat as a washboard. (He looked like me when I was 15. ) It looked kind of bizarre since his arms are at least tone. Anyway, Yao is only going to get stronger. The good news is that he's shown a willingness to at least try to fight for position against stronger players. So, once he develops that strength after working with American strength coaches, he'll be able to muscle people for better position in the post. Plus, he already has a pretty strong lower body. But be patient -- changing your body type like that (did I mention that he literally had no pecs?) will probably take at least a year.
I'm no Rick Carlisle, but, if a player is being fronted, AND has weakside help, doesn't that mean he's drawing more than enough attention for ANOTHER player to score? Isn't that the whole idea behind "teams can't win without a post presence"? If Ming is being fronted, and he's getting weakside attention, I suggest he camps a little further from the basket, and opens up the game for the rest of his teammates. In basketball, force is RARELY needed to complete a good play. If it's that tough, there's probably another way.
This is a good point, and it raises another question. The obvious play in this circumstance is the swing pass around to the weak side, and then a quick and decisive shot from the open man. What is happening in the games? No swing pass, no shot being put up from the weakside player, or just a bad shot?
I feel there are two things that can counteract how teams are defensing Yao with regards to fronting him and jamming the passer. We can use our 3 to set a back pick on the weakside of the lane for Yao so that he can cut across the lane somewhat free and clear. I believe this is what the Lakers do alot for Shaquille. Then once the ball is swung around to the player making the entry pass into the post, that player needs to QUICKLY (before his man can jam him) get the ball down into Yao. This sequence accomplishes/prevents two things: 1) At the time that the ball is being lobbed down into Yao, his man or a possible switch off defender will be behind him trying to catch up to him after the screen/pick is made (will make it hard for either defender to recover in time to front him). 2) Once the entry passer receives the ball and if he QUICKLY lobs it into Yao, his defender, theoretically wont have enough time to jam him. ONe of the problems with our entry passing is, they take too long. They dribble for a while and that allows the defender to D up on him. Also, this creates several nice options. If lets say, Griffin is at the top of the of the three point line and is the one making the swing pass around to the player making the entry pass down to Yao, then he can keep an eye out for the player setting the back pick (Glen Rice) to then pop out on the wing and then get the ball to him for an open jumper (assuming Glen's and Yao's defenders are momentarily focused on Yao going across the lane). Griffin might also have another open teamate if that guy's defender drops down to cover Glen coming off the pick that he set. They key in all this is quickness (passing) and timing (the back pick). Ive yet to see the Rockets do this type of play to counteract what teams like Miami and Dallas do to Yao. Maybe they have and Ive just missed it. Regardless, there are adjustments that can be made that will help us get Yao the ball.
Yao is not doing the best he can at getting open. He hasn't solved how to beat the fronting. I think this has to be of concern and noticeable. It is just not going to be a piece of cake to get him the ball inside the paint. This is not the only problem, but I just can't buy the "just throw him the ball" solution, either. giddyup, you have to admit that your dominant players are possibly the 3 strongest players ever: Wilt, Shaq and Malone, and Jabbar actually shot quite a few shots well outside the paint. When Yao rolls to the basketball, he is often quite open and not utilized as much as he could be. The other thing we are not doing is having Yao come across the lane with a pick as the ball swings around. back and forth, can usually produce a opportunity to seal a defender. However, Yao doesn't look like the best at sealing his defender.
There's another factor: We don't have a lot of good passers on this team. When Yao starts at the top of the key and rolls to to the middle of the lane, they never give him the ball. There are times Yao will beat the man down the court and a quick pass could lead to a quick score before the defense is set. Our passing is atrocious. Nobody on this team could be deemed a great passer. Yao has the potential to be the best passer on this team which is really scary (good and bad).
about the fronting. he is not being backed...not always, at least. The backside help doesn't leave their man until the ball is in the air. It is a slow lob pass. You don't have to be behind Yao to harass it. What San Antonio did is placed Robinson at the high post, and that is from where we sent our help when we fronted Duncan. The best basketball player in the NBA couldn't get it without being harassed, and the best he could do is a quick tap to Robinson cutting down the lane. That failed everytime. It looked like it should have worked, but we seemed to know it was coming, and Robinson failed to convert everytime that I remember. Our best play to free Yao (aside from the PnRs that Francis doesn't pass out of much) is a high post player (often Kenny) receives a entry pass and Yao is on the opposite low post. Yao gives a pick for Mobley coming around baseline, and Yao tries to then seal his own defender. Kenny passes to Mobley as he comes out to the wing, and Mobley now usually has an easier pass to Yao.
Riet, I think Moochie is actually an underrated passer on this team. At times, he shows he has excellent court vision and fundamentally sound passing. Hes made a couple of VERY nice passes last night and several over the last few games. Of course, the problem is, getting him to pass it when he should.
What is this monster I've created? A thread about Yao getting the ball with almost no player bashing...
Moochie is adequate but he makes too many bad decisions to be considered a sound passer (like jumping in the air and then throwing it to an opponent). The Rockets have some serious spacing issues. Why are Yao Ming and Kenny Thomas right next to each other? It just allows the other man's defender to rotate in a nanosecond. The proper allignment when throwing it into Yao should be the guard (who slashes to the basket), Yao, the PF on the weakside waiting to rebound, and another guard moving to an open spot on the court: Option 1: Yao shoots the ball Option 2: Passes to the cutter Option 3: Passes to the open man for a jump shot or allows the open man to make another pass in case the defender rotates on him.
A good thread. Wonder why team don't even try to front Shaq? Cuz Shaq and the rest of the Lakers know how to make the defense pay with an easy dunk of the basket. The best the defense can do is to send out a strong player to try to push out Shaq as much as possible and hope he miss the jumper, even they know Shaq is the most difficult guy to push out. Fronting without double-team just isn't a legit defense option on a 7-6 guy with soft hands, agile, and can score easily in the paint. It's clearly right now Rockets cann't give the rock to Ming. Bad ball movement. Bad spacing. Bad big-man BB-IQ. I hope Rudy T can fix this fast.
That's selfishness on Kenny Thomas part. Well... he's playing without a contract and wanted to prove to Rudy that he can score too.
Kenny and Yao are either in opposite low posts or one is high post and the other opposite low post. They are not standing next to each other on purpose. I saw it once, and that was a busted play. Often, Yao is the last to understand the play call (language problem) and has to see the hand signals or have a player move him to his spot.
