"Getting it", Grades and Splitting Batman & Robin Up

I'm just curious, what can be done to get Steve to stop all this high step kicking when he brings the ball up court??

 

I would still be against any trades this season. However, if we miss the playoffs this year then anything goes.

I have tried my best to not criticize any player this season, but our streetball mentality is making it real tough.

I also don't think Rudy will ever be fired. The blame should be on everyone, but it should go mostly to the players. Not his fault Francis refuses to get Yao involved.

I wish there was anyway we could get someone like PJ Brown/Antonio Davis type of player to back up Eddie. Eddie is our future, but we definitely need a bruiser down low to take care of our pretty boys.

 

I don't think that Rudy is really in control. Too often the players do not listen.

I think that is directly Rudy's fault. He needs to give some players, regardless of who they are, a good dose of pine.

DD

 

Thats not a bad idea at all. If our guards want to play dumb streetball then sit their asses down for a game. Lets see how then like watching the game for once.

I think Cuttino has been a little smarter then Francis lately. At least Cat plays or shows some interest in playing defense. Even Moochie has been playing a tad bit better lately. He relies less on his herky-jerky movements and is making up his mind quickly.

Francis on the other hand...

 

It's time for a coaching change. Rudy may or may not send a player to the bench ONCE. But it's not his style. It's not the way he'll function, and it won't be his attitude in practices.

These sorry excuses for frikkin players need someone to treat them like animals. Someone who won't care what they think, and will only play those who are performing within his system. Oh, and yes, my dream coach HAS a system.


Trading players right now won't do it. You look at the Grizz. Now, they can trade, because they know who's working for them, and who's not. You'd think when Jerry West came, he'd want to get rid of J-Will. But that guy's putting up regular 10 assists, no turnover performances now. For us, we don't know who we need to keep and who's not part of the Yao Ming and Steve Francis team. We don't know if T-Mo, Boki, Posey or Mooch are players we should keep. We may think we know, but we haven't seen any of ourp layers play within a system yet.

If Rudy loves the Rockets, he'll resign, and we'll hire someone (not promote someone) who will come in and try to turn us around in time to make the 8th seed. I'd rather make the 8th seed with this new coach than the 6th or 7th seed with Rudy T.


Rudy's a great coach, but he's not for this team.

 

Addition by subtraction.

Add to the team by subtracting from the talent. Most teams that have won in history of hoops have done this. The most recent has been the Lakers who traded 2 all stars in Nick and E. Jones along with a talented 4 in Campbell for a lesser talent. The result has been really good. What or how can the rockets do this? Trade Eddie,Taylor, and Cat for Shareef. Getting rid of Mobley,Taylor and Griffin needs for shots will increase the attempts for Ming ,Shareef, and Francis. Fill in Posey and Morris and you have 2 good low post scoring threats and rebounders, 1 penetrator and 2 guys who will hustle to get points. This would kill the need to feel the staff would have to satisfy this person and and that person. If that doesn't work, trade Griffin and Mobley for Brand and maggettte. Again this clears the logjam of players getting involved and really focus this team on more of a team concept. I really think this team needs to be shaken up a little bit.

 

Oeilpere,

What I AM convinced of is that keeping Francis and Mobley in their present roles will suffocate the growth of this team. And it's obvious they don't listen to Rudy and revert to their selfish one-on-one ways given the slightest excuse.

I can't believe that Rudy is as clueless as he appears, but the lack of "gettin' in" by our starting guards is just depressing regarding the future of the Rox. I agree with a previous poster who said that RT is a great coach , but "not right for this team." If he is preaching "move the ball, make the extra pass, and team play" then his words all falling on deaf ears. He is being ignored by the players who control the pace, tempo and style of the game.

Something has to be done

I'd move Mobely in a NY minute for a true playmaker who could change the culture of this team from ME to WE. I'm dying watching Yao get frozen out by our guards in the first ten minutes of the third quarter last nite- same for a red hot Posey. That's where we lost the game.......not at the buzzer. And RT just sat there watching during the 20 point turnaround. What was he thinking? Why doesn't he DEMAND sharing the ball? Yao was setting up wherever he wanted. Not only didn't he shoot the ball until 2 minutes to go in the quarter, HE DIDN"T EVEN TOUCH THE BALL. Red Kerr got it right when he was asked "how do you neutralize Yao?" He said, "we don't have to, the Rockets have done that for us."

Right now we are a joke because of the selfish culture that abounds. The Chinese national guards didn't know how to get Yao the ball, our guards know how but choose not to

If Rudy can't take control, then he needs help or a John Gruden type to replace him.

Dallas Rocket

 

Hey Rudy! Chicago's on a 20-0 run!



We have other "getting it" problems.

I don't think Andre Miller for Cat is going to cut it. Andre can't shoot, and Steve's got problems at the 2. I like leebigez's trades better, and the reasoning.

I've posted my plea for a point forward like Lamar Odom before, to allow Posey at 2 for backcourt defensive help for SF and to give Yao and Steve maximum scoring, set-up opportunities. I think the ball would move beautifully with Odom, Steve, Yao, Posey and a 4 to-be- named later. It also gives us a 6'10" small forward who can post and rebound.

Whoever the deal is for, we need a deal. This crew won't cut it - they make each other worse, not better.

 

I love the prospect of acquiring Lamar Odom, then running it equally through Francis, Ming, and Odom as a 3rd option. Much like the Kings do with Webber, Christie, and Webber, while also going through Divac at times.


Odom and Francis are turnover prone. But when the responsibilities are reduced greatly, and you have a post presence like Yao ALSO helping, it makes a world of difference.


Only problem is, what do we have to give?

Is there any team that would want MoT (3-way trade) or would Sterling drool over Rice's 1 year contract?


This team needs to find it's identity. Rudy's been here so long, sometimes people just need change. At some point in 2 or 3 years, I'd love to have Rudy back. But it's not what we need right now. Rudy would do great coaching veteran teams that know their roles and have control of their egos. But for us? We're not ready to be released into the wild yet.

 

I am guessing you meant Webber, Peja, and Bibby.

I am sick of guards that don't pass and just turn the ball over. The Rockets are not a team, they are a bunch of individuals playing street ball. What a waste if we have to give up talent just to get better.

I am a big Rudy fan and I will always be. But, either he doesn't get it or his team doesn't get it. Something has to give. Rice is the only person that has the balls to say something about Francis. Man, I'll keep him around just for that reason alone.

 

Are you kidding. Lucas is a cancer. Fundamentals? I could grab 4 of my friends and beat any team he ever coached. You guys think the Rockets don't play well together. You guys would think all of our players "get it" after watching the Cavs play. I cannot believe any team would give him another chance. Man, I couldn't disagree more.

 

repost from the Doc Rocket thread about "getting it":


heypee, pippendagimp, oeilpere, etc.:


sorry for the delayed response. i've been gone for a few days. anyway, after thinking about it, i realized that i'm wrong. i don't think francis "gets it" from the 1 or 2 spot. i just don't think he has the court intelligence to "get it".


as for what i was saying earlier about getting it at the 1 vs the 2, i really believe that the point guard spot (and the center spot) is absolutely definable. 2s, 3s and 4s can be versatile in how they play.

it's a mentality, i tell ya. take jordan for example. true enough, he was chicago's first option, however, MANY other factors have to be considered:

one is the triangle offense. that offense truly does eliminate the need for a true point guard because the offense itself generates proper scoring opportunities for everyone on the court - as long as they are competent players.

two is the fact that jordan, imo, switched many times from 1 to 2 during the course of the game. i'm not talking about bringing the ball up here. i'm talking about his MENTALITY on the court. it was a common occurrence to see an entire 1st half or 3rd quarter go by with jordan only taking 3-5 shots. jordan had self-awareness. he knew that (a) the other teams were completely focused on stopping him; (b) that he could, in fact, score at will, despite the other teams' efforts; and (c) that he COULD NOT WIN unless he got his teammates the shots that they felt comfortable taking. so he passed, to get his teammates properly involved and, at the same time, kept himself involved by taking over in critical stretches.

this, imo, is what made michael jordan so damn phenomenal. to handle that load successfully from the 2 spot for such a duration of dominance is simply mindboggling. it's why he's considered the greatest of all time. he was able, in his mind and through physical execution, to split the duties of shooting guard and point guard. as much as i got sick of the jordan hype machine, i could never deny him this much...

NONE of those other guys you mentioned (including kobe) "get it" in that sense. when i talk about "getting it" i mean being able to sustain carry a team on your back and getting to the big dance. iverson did it once, but, frankly (1) the east was absolutely horrid that year; and (2) the refs absolutely robbed the milwaukee bucks when they played the 76ers. iverson fouled out TWICE in that final game against sam cassell, but the refs refused to blow the damn whistle against the hip-hop icon of the nba...

if you want to carry a team from the backcourt and be THE MAN over a sustained period of time, you have to either be a 2 guard with the mental abilities of a michael jordan or a true point guard. do you understand how difficult that is?

this is why it always has been and always will be A BIG MAN'S GAME. this is why COUNTLESS opposing team's announcers repeatedly talk about how the rockets do not involve yao ming enough. i know you have season tickets, so you don't hear it as many times as us NBA league passers hear it. but it's EVERY DAMN ANNOUNCER. they realize it. why anyone else on the rocket's roster or coaching staff cannot is beyond me....

 

I just totally posted a totally worthless post when this one is exactly what I said with better flair and description.

Oeilpere is on the money. So is Will. So is Jeff.

Deers. Beautiful to look at. But dumb as a lightpost.

 

oh, and for the record, i'm 110% for trading stevie franchise.


his value may never be higher, he's not a true point guard, he's too small (physically and mentally) to play the shooting guard, and his defense is, well, nonexistent.

if we could parlay steve and let's say, anyone ouside of yao ming for a kevin garnett, it'd be a step in the right direction.


oh, and whoever said lucas is a cancer?! please back that ridiculous assertion up ....

 

Francis guarding the likes of Iverson, Pierce, Kobe, McGrady, Allen, Carter, or Finley is enough to send shivers down my spine! The only way I would even consider moving Francis to the two is if we got a big point guard who could guard opposing 2's. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any point guards who fit that description.

Agreed.

Disagree. If I had my way we'd get a solid "banger" to start at the PF position (PJ Brown, Kurt Thomas, Tyronne Hill, Otis Thorpe ).

I just don't see why we should be impatient with Eddie right now and adopt a "learn or burn" mentality with him. If we can't get anyone through a trade, I think we should play Cato along side of Yao. He needs some help, and Griffin and Taylor don't seem to be providing it right now.

 

Thanks for the agreement. If this were the end of the year and I felt as I do, my grades would have been harder on Rudy and Steve too. I give them a margin since only a half season has passed.

I'll say this about Rudy...replacing him in the middle of the season would be an absolute disaster. It would be, for the Rockets, an admission that they are not going to the playoffs and building for the future. They don't want to admit that and it would be devastating to he team if they did no matter how they may or may not feel in private.

Secondly, you do not replace a coach in mid stream UNLESS you are a really awful team. Despite the recent travails, the Rockets are still on pace to make the playoffs. It's one thing to dump your head guy if you are 9-32 or even 18-23 at the break, especially if the team is cratering. But, it would be a PR and basketball nightmare to take something like that on during the season with this team. If the Rockets don't make the playoffs, I think we all understand the consequences. That is enough.

Lastly, I personally would enjoy seeing someone like Luke on the bench. There are times when you need a guy like him to chew the **** out of players when they aren't taking the game seriously. It's like having an enforcer on your team and it could be very effective.

For me, I can live with the growing and learning process. I recognize the struggles and hate them as much as anyone. But, IMO, that is what this season is for. Anyone who thought we were going to legitimately contend with a 21-year-old rookie, a 20-year-old power forward, a point guard who hasn't fully matured and a collection of decent but not jaw dropping talent was kidding himself.

This is the year to see where we are and make fateful decisions. We have no draft pick in the offseason and probably little or no cap room. This is the season to find out if the coach is the right one, who your go-to guys are and what this team should look like over the next 6 or 7 seasons.

It isn't the be-all-end-all of basketball and, as fans, it will be highly frustrating at times. But, it is part of the re-building process and I don't care how many times you say "re-tooling", this team was not doing that. This was a crappy team with mediocre talent and aging stars. This is now a decent team with star-potential talent and young, rising superstars. But, it isn't going to fully come together this year. In fact, I don't think it will fully materialize next year either. But, come 2004, I wouldn't want to play the Rockets if I were another team. It just sucks to wait if you are a fan.

 

I agree with Jeff on the coaching issue. I've changed my stance from "sack Rudy" to "Wait till the end of the season, then sack Rudy".


But Jeff, one question: Are the young players the problem here? Francis and Mobley are NOT young. They are 26 and 28 respectively. That's right before you hit your prime. Yao Ming is young, but he's just great. He's playing perfect basketball for us. Eddie Griffin is not great, but he's younger than Yao. He's a second year high school pick, and he's performing like one (Chandler, Kwame, Curry). So we're weak at the 4.

But this is the problem. It's not lack of money either. Cato is playing TERRIFFIC basketball.

The problems is with our "veterans". Rice, MoT, Moochie and Mobley are not playing average basketball. You may say Mobley is playing average basketball by his standards, but the rest of the guys are playing relatively horrible basketball. MoT was feeling great about himself, but he hasn't shown it. He was given the start, and if MoT is not scoring for us, then he's doing absolutely nothing. Same for Rice. If Rice isn't hitting 3's or mid range J's, then the only valuable thing he's bringing is the constant yapping at Francis. That's a good thing btw.

If we realize Francis needs mroe time to get it, then we should either force him to get it (assistant coach or something) or reduce those responsibilities till he matures further (other player to handle PG duties).

This team is young, but the youth is doing a decent job, maybe even excellent relative to expectations. But how good do you think this team would be if either Rice or MoT were playing average basketball?


5th seed if you ask me.


Doc Rocket, oeilpere, Jeff...You guys hear things. Tell us. If we are the 8th seed this year, would Rudy be in the hotseat?

 

I pretty much agree with you Jeff about the midseason coach replacement thing. I think this team still doesn't have an identity. I still think that as long as Francis and Mobley control the ball and the flow of the game, this team will never be consistent. We can go round and round about the youth of this team and the time they have been together, but there are teams in the nba who have been together for a shorter period of time and are just as good or better.As long as Steve and Mobley are together, they will always look for each other instead of using the team like they should. Thats why i like taking Cat's 14 or 15 shots per game and Mo taylors and Griffins combined shots and giving the to Shareef,Ming and Francis. Posey is the type of running mate steve needs and for that matter the Rockets needs because of his hustle and defense. i would hate to lose Griffin, but i don't think he'll be much better than a Donyell Marshall type. Even though Donyell is a solid player, getting a 25 yr old Shareef who has a good post game and range to about 19 ft would solidify the rockets offense. Taylor would be no big lost and cat would have a good trade value for the hawks. we probably won't see any movements, but the balance of making the playoffs could hinge on LA or Seattle not getting a player like Shareef. Missing the playoffs this yr is not an option.

 

The problem with SAR is, he's struggling as a PF in the East, so how would he do there in the West?

Also, the reason we don't have him in the first place, is because he doesn't play Defense at all.


Were you suggesting putting him at the 3? I think that would be OK too, but then, what about his huge contract?