O.k...I don't guess there is any way to post this without sounding condesending or libpigish. But I really, genuinely, at this point have difficulty understanding why someone would think that George Bush has done a good job in his two terms as President. Do you think that the economy has improved, do you think America is more secure, do you think the end of removing Saddam justifies the means and the aftermath, do you think in the end the Iraq war will have a positive end result for that part of the world. I would ask my fellow liberals to refrain from bashing in this thread, I really genuinely am curious as to what his supporters think he is doing right. I know this thread has an unpleasant tone, and some are going to interpret its existance as Bush Bashing on my part, but I would like to actually hear the case for W, from his supporters, I know that the denizens of D&D are all people who care about politics and I am hoping for better answers than I get from some less informed Bushophiles.
yes about the same remains to be seen still up in the air, but yes. the economy is booming you can't attack him on this... other than that he continues to leave himself open for attack on all fronts. 1) social security 2) guest worker program 3) failed harriet myers bid 4) katrina 5) the leak/no leak situation 6) iraq, the planning/lead up 7) iraq, the current situation 8) high gas prices 9) terri schiavo involvement i realize some of these are not entirely his to blame, but as the saying goes "the buck stops here."
1. my mutual funds have gone up slightly and i still have a job 2. too early to tell. was vietnam good for the US? depends on who you talk to. USA veterans and military, no. Vietnamese americans, yes (they have a better life thanks to the US). Vietnamese in Vietnam. probably 50/50. Iraq? Kurds -yes. Sunnis -no. Shiites, 50/50. Americans? so far.. no. if u favor the war or not. we need a good outcome. if its W or the next president, we have to come out of Iraq with a good outcome. 3. we havent had another attack yet. but do people think it will happen? yes people keep forgetting that they were in the US for 8 years planning this and that they tried before to blow up the trade center. the president has to show that we are winning the war on terror to give the american people confidence. so far.. no.
My first reply is to be found in your signature-- the remark by Bill Cosby... "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." - Bill Cosby
Wow...a thread that actually tries to reach across the aisle and understand the other side!! In response to your questions: - The economy has improved. - America is about as secure as it was before. - The ends justify the means with regards to Saddam (especially considering the new documents that show Saddam directing terrorists to attack US interests). However, a better plan for dealing with post-war Iraq should have been made. The way they're handling the aftermath of the war is unacceptable in many ways and doesn't help U.S. interests. - I used to think that the Iraq war would result in a positive outcome. I'm not sure anymore. The people over there want to be free but don't want to work for it. Democracy is based on compromise and that's something that just doesn't exist over there it seems. I think there is still a chance but I'm not as optimistic as I once was. ... On another note, I think that many of you have a misguided view of a lot of us on the "right-wing" side of most issues when it comes to Bush. I defend him on issues that I don't think he should be blamed for. It seems as anytime something bad happens, it gets blamed on Bush and it's just not the correct thing to do. Blame Bush for what he's done but don't go out of your way to make a connection. Bush is not evil and he's doing what he thinks is right for the country. This is hard for some people to believe so they turn him into evil incarnate which he just isn't. Some people's hatred for Bush has clouded their judgement and I think time will show the truth about his presidency. Bushbots bother me as much as those who bash him at every chance. The guy isn't Jesus/God/etc. He's done a poor job in many areas and he should have to take responsibility for that. His constant spending has led me to the belief that he's the best liberal president we've ever had. He's not a fiscal conservative as he claims; he's a social conservative. I seem to be ranting and going off on tangents so if there are any particular questions you have, I'd be happy to share my opinion on those particular issues. It's sort of hard to write out my entire opinion on Bush in one post. Major - I thank you for actually taking the time to try to understand the other side. Your original post doesn't really come off as too condescending because of this. Hopefully there can be more threads like this in the future.
i dont think Bush, the person, isnt a bad guy. if you hate, hate the game, not the playa. i was watching something on CNN and W was getting questions from the audience and this one dude was railing on him. The audience booed and W said, "hey let him speak his mind". That was cool of him, I wouldnt have done that. I would have Ron Artest that dude. this brings up another point. If we had president Vernon Maxwell and vice president Ron Artest. The USA would be the greatest force in the world. Like that president dude in Iran, let em talk crap to Max or Ron. Iran would be something that he's doing not a country.
Major M's a good guy. I wish that I had the patience to address this in the manner in which it deserves, but I just don't. His questions deserve a better response than I am capable of at the moment.
Wow that's rich, what a pleasant surprise. Thanks for the heads up. Define "directing" and "US interests." Also, could you provide the link(s) to the new revelation? TIA. I hope it's not from Michelle Malkin's blog.
I knew I could count on wnes to get rid of any semblance of attempting to understand the other side... There are numerous sites besides Malkin that say this but this isn't the thread for it and all you would do is claim that since they're all right wing oriented that they have no credibility so I'll save myself the screaming match. If anyone is really interested in discussing this, I'll open a new thread to discuss it and the fact that 2 separately hired Arabic translators came to the same conclusion about the document. That's not what this thread is about and I'd actually like to keep a previously civil and attack-free thread as it was.
economy = booming unemployment = a very healthy 4.7% my taxes = lowered our nation = more secure than what a liberal could provide
Major Malcontent asked the liberals to refrain from bashing, but I guess you're not able to follow instructions. Your post here was bad, but it doesn't top when you tried to ruin Clutch's April Fools joke, though. I'm glad he deleted your post where you tried to spoil the fun. Did you honestly think that you were the only person who recognized that the RyBo story was an April Fools joke? Give me a break.
I am not a liberal, but I concede I didn't pay Major Malcontent due respect. I apologize sincerely to him. Without further derailing the thread, I'll just say your accusation is utterly baseless.
If you like Maxwell and Artest, then you should love the Iranian President, he's got impeccable credentials...
You know what the people over there want? LOL The war was a fight against terror? LOL The people over there don't want to work to be free? LOL
As a two time Bush voter, I can tell you that I got what I wanted out of Bush, and that was the nomination (and confirmation) of two pro-life justices to the supreme court. If a couple more from the Roe/Planned Parenthood side would go ahead and retire before he leaves office so we could really get a solid majority, it would be even sweeter. On Iraq, I was and am in favor of intervention, most likely because I have a pretty interventionist world view. I think we shouldn't have largely left Somalia - which led to the Black Hawk Down incident, we should have gone into Rwanda, and we should be in the Sudan right now. I don't think we use our military enough as a force for good in the world. We have the power to do so much more than we do, and it feels like we are shirking our responsibilities. I don't think any president deserves much credit/blame for the economy. Clinton didn't create the technology boom, and Bush didn't cause the recession. The economy is cyclical. I certainly think he could have done a better job as president, which is a position each and every one of us should hold (unless you agree with every decision he has made, <- UNLIKELY). He likewise could have been worse, which is a position each and every one of us should hold (unless you disagree with every decision he has made, <- UNLIKELY).
remind me again, back in '99-2000 when bush was running against gore for the election, i remember him claiming to be a compassionate conservative. i also remember him talking about how he brought the texas house and senate together. did he ever claim anything about being a fiscal conservative?
i voted for bush the first time. after he lied and the crappy job he did, i'll never vote republican again... making abortion illegal is a waste of time. people will just go to other countries where its not as safe and get it done anyways
Thanks for the well thought out input so far. I know that its incredibly difficult to make economists agree on anything, so I think that the argument that supply side economics works is a defensible one (though I don't happen to believe it). I also think that if someone is staunchly pro life, they should consider voting Republican (I happen to be pro choice). As far as the economy being robust under Bush as compared with Clinton...I guess its just a matter of what sectors you are looking at. Anyway...I appreciate the input so far...and look forward to more.
Maxwell and Artest are great Americans. They are the epitome of the American dream. hard work would lead to success. If anyone throws crap or says crap about your family, you as an American have a right to smack them. Heroes!
