Gary Payton

the old GP would be ok, the present day 35 year old GP? I think I'll pass.

The word on the street in the league has been, for the last 3 years or so, that his defense has seriously declined and that now he is an average, at best defender. The numbers seem to bear it out too; he just doesn't shut anybody down anymore, notwithstanding his reputation based ALl d team selections.

 

If Bucks don't sign him, and if they will consent to a sign'and'trade, then come to my house my house...GP!

Assuming 'all' that who and what demanded from the Rox including who the Rox would have to accept to have the deal go through becomes the issue.

It won't be easy.

 

I'd love to have GP, but we'd have to help Milwaukee out a lot. First off, Mobley must be excluded. They have Redd and Mason.

The deal Milwaukee will be looking for is something like:

Caffey
Mason
Payton

for

Cato
MoT
Rice

Something like that. We take Caffey and Mason off their hands, and upgrade them to Cato and MoT. Those 2 guys would hammer the East. As for Rice, it's about money. I'm thinking, to balance the trade, we'll take their LEAST favourite out of Desmond Mason and Micheal Redd, and swap that guy with Mobley. So:

Caffey, Mason, Payton, their choice of Mason/Redd

for

Cato, MoT, Rice, Mobley

Their team:

Cato/Gadzuric
MoT/whoever
Tim Thomas/Kukoc
Mobley/Either Redd or Mason
Cassell

They improve their SG, PF, and C positions while also saving some cash.

Point being, Payton's presence is even worth making that trade. Forget the fact that he's still very offensively capable, as well as the best defender on our team.

 

My mouth fell to the floor. Man,cuttino isnt THAT bad. I want change,yes, but not a old rival,gun toking ,bad mouthing, old fart payton. Man,I cant wait till this offseason is over.It hasnt even started and Im going nuts. Two guys I do not want to see for the life of me,malone and payton.

Now, mobley for redd? YES

ps:what about our sorry pf spot that needs upgrading?

 

I dont really see why bucks would take the bad contracts of cato and taylor. And should we pay over 10M to 34 years old payton?

 

You mean you won't trade mobley for payton?

 

Jason Caffey makes about as much as MoT and Anthony Mason makes 1M or so less than Cato. For the MUCH improved size and the MUCH improved production, it's well well worth it. Basically, for around 1 or 2 Million more, they upgrade their PF/C spot BIG TIME, but then make up the mooney difference with Rice and Cuttino coming in.

the combination of Kukoc and Rice's contract takes around 17M off their cap after one year, so the only luxury tax problems would be if they re-signed mason big time, which could be taken care of if they just send him to houston.

 

Caffey, Mason, Payton, their choice of Mason/Redd

for

Cato, MoT, Rice, Mobley


From hoopstype.com

Next year:
Caffey 5.7M (contract expire at 04/05)
A. Mason 5.5M (04/05)

Cato 7.3M (05/06)
Mo 7.8M ((06/07)

Bucks use around 4M to upgrade their frontline. Talent wise, mobley and mason/redd is about the same. Then Buck is trading Payton for rice's expiring contract. Why would they sign with payton and trade for an expiring contract? I know I am simplifying the case, but I hope u get my point.

 

Wow, that's a real shocker. I was convinces caffey made a lot more.

Either way, I sincerely doubt Mobley for either Redd or Mason (especially since it's THEIR choice) is a wash.

I also think they'd rather upgrade their frontline than let Payton walk.

To put in into perspective, imagine it as delaying the capspace in exchange for upgrading their frontline.

 

Actually I dont have many chances to watch nba games and I got the impression of our players performance from you guys. Not direct to Sane, but some of you guys diss mobley and griffen everyday and when we talk about trade, all of the sudden they are very valuable assets. I think I get the meaning of "homerism" now which I cant find it in dictionary.

 

Think about it his way: Lakers fan complain about Kobe and Shaq.

It makes you think there are so many problems with the players but if you judged everyone under a microscope, you'd come across more weaknesses than you can imagine.

I must add that Griffin, right now, is not good at all. But the fact that he's so young and works hard while still being on the rookie scale makes him valuable.

 

I could take Payton one on one.
Dunk on his ass.

 

The Bucks seems like a pretty good trading partner for the Rockets. I thought so before the trading deadline and was really hoping we could nab Ray Allen using Cato/Mobley as the main trade bait.

The Bucks "interior defense" is horrific and it is the ONE thing that continues to haunt them. Interior Defense and low post scoring are their weaknesses. They have a lot of quality point guards and swingmen but no low post players.

The Rockets have a quality back up center in Cato who seems like would be a GREAT fit on an eastern conference team such as the Bucks. Mo Taylor would also be a nice fit for them.

Payton would be an excellent player for the Rockets to pick up if they could get it done. He adds:
1) Defense at the PG/SG spot
2) A VETERAN in the starting line up that has major playoff experience
3) Allows Francis to move to SG on offense

I doubt the Rockets will obtain Payton but I think he would be a great fit on this team. Good point guards seem to have long shelf lives in the NBA because their styles of play are more mental the physical.

 

Pull the trigger, it's a GO.

 

I liked Payton and really thought the team should have gone for him earlier in the season, but knowing how much his defensive abilities have deminished .............just keep the same team for next year!

 

hopefully you guys are talking about desmond and not anthony mason, who is, of course, locker room cancer.

 

First I think Mobley would be a better true two guard than Milwalkee has. Mobley is a better defender and more dynamic than Redd--even if Redd is a better spot up shooter. (Redd hasn't come close to replacing Ray Allen--not that Mobley would replace Ray either, but he would be much closer). Desmond is a good talent as well, but I think he is better suited as a 3 with part time 2 duties than a regular 2, because of his lack of range and inconsistent outside shot. Basically I think a Cassell & Mobley starting backcourt would be a better for the Bucks than Cassell and Redd/Mason because the Bucks need their backcourt to generate their offense.

However, I think those of you trying to get Redd or Desmond along with Payton are reaching unless we up the anti. I think something like Payton and Caffey for Mobley, Rice (expires next year) and their choice of Mo or Cato is more within reason. To get Desmond or Redd (more complicated due to BYC as well) you would have to include Griff or Boki in addition to the others.

If I were Milwakee I would be tempted to trade Payton and Caffey for Mobley, Rice (expiring contract) and Cato. Then I try to trade Tim Thomas for a guy with his height/weight but who has the strength and attitude of a real 4--and let Mason or Redd be the future 3. Then with Rice and Kukoc off the books next year and maybe saving cap room with Thomas trade--they are a much younger, cheaper and more athletic team that can look for the future.

For the Rockets, yes Payton will soon by 35--but he has another couple good (starting quality) years left plus another couple decent (quality back-up) years left IMO--that would make us much better right away and maybe help our future by giving Franchise a good role model to learn a cerebral PG game from when Payton moves on to the back-up role.

I'd like these moves for both teams.