The Spurs primarily fronted Yao in the 4th, and we beat it. Make them pay by driving to the basket, and finding the open guy. I like how we didn't force the ball into Yao, but we just let the offense flow. Thats what we need to do in the playoffs. If they are giving us Yao 1 on 1 in the post, take it. If they aren't giving us that, they are probably giving us something else in an effort to front Yao.
we didnt really beat it. i just think they werent used to the high pick and roll and messed up the defensive rotation. I doubt this will happen again, unless Yao is fronted. Also, I dont think Yao can knock that 20 foot jumpshot at a high percentage. the best option is still his down at low post and sealing the check
We beat it by going away from it. We went HP&R that lead to driving lanes and the Spurs scrambling on the switch.
IMO, beating it means either forcing them to stop or still somehow getting the ball to Yao in scoring position. If a team can take Yao out of the game like the Spurs did for most of the 4th, our chance of scoring consistently and winning go way down. Just because we were still able to score without the ball going Yao today doesn't mean it'll work consistently.
Did we beat it? Maybe someone can review the fourth quarter and count up how often we scored on possessions in which Yao was fronted. I thought most of our scores late came when we went away from posting up Yao and instead of relied on some other guys or the high pick and roll. I could be mistaken.
yao is unable to beat the front in the post. he's simply not mobile enough to get the ball in that situation. the rockets decided that it was better to concede defeat in the post and go elsewhere. this game they went to the high PnR. i would also like to see yao go to the high post to receive the ball and let him hand the ball off or use off ball screens to free up cutters who he can pass to.
Actually the objective when the other teams try to take Yao out of the game(by fronting with help behind) is to find the weakness in the defense and exploit it. A defense is most balanced when everyone is in a 1 on 1 situation. When a player shifts over to help another player who is playing between the ball and the man it means other players have to also shift to protect the help defender's man. This creates the weakness in the defense that you can either ignore and force it to the guy being fronted or exploit by creating opportunities with something else. Now, this could be done as simply as rotating the ball getting the fronter out of position and a entry pass to Yao(usually done while Yao is crossing the lane with his man now behind him). Could also leave Yao as a decoy or use him in a PNR.
Also simply reversing the ball seems to be a problem because 1.) yao is too slow and i've seen at times when we reverse it around by the time it's time to pass it he's fronted again 2.) Refs allow guys to basically hold one of Yao's arms all game long. Going to the basket though, that is open. Teams front they are giving up something i'm glad today Adelman didn't try to run it into the ground...although he almost did. I'll have to see us defeat it again before I say we've defeated it.
we did not defeat it. in fact we got lucky. if they would have done it earlier and more often, given our lineup, we would have been screwd. listen...im as pumped as you all over the victory, but I see how to beat that set very easily. as long as shane is in the opposite 3pt corner, where the ball will swing to, we will be stymied. we need to be ae to reverse the ball with the ability to penetrate/dish. that's nothing agiainst shane, cuz another option (though never explored) is to flash the pf to the ft line. but we rotate the ball on the perimeter instead which leaves the perimeter corner man (shane) to make decisions and it fails. until yao learns to properly seal or we get a weakside cornerman that can penetrate effectively, it will remain a weakspot.
we can run that high p&r any time we want. so, no, we didn't beat it. we just went away from it - after a 7-8 minutes period in the 4th when yao basically couldn't even touch the ball. this fronting defense thing has become irritating as hell. (thanks to jvg for bragging and announcing it on national tv. ) i say it's on yao as well as his teammates. but more importantly, it's on adelman. i've heard and believed that adelman is a genius on offense, but until he successfully solve this myth of fronting, i feel there is still something missing from adelman. c'mon, at least show some progress. after the jazz game on tuesday, they should be able to get some practice in.
That's how Yao defeated Fronting....... <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZDg8UnSlbV8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZDg8UnSlbV8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Any team can take one player out of the game if they want to. You want to take Lebron out of the game?? You double him before he has the ball, even if he is running baseline. Switch any picks or what not. Sure, you are playing 4 on 3 elsewhere, but hey, Lebron ain't gonna beat ya. Well, your defense of him will beat ya, but he wont get his. Well, Yao is slower than Lebron and can effectively be taken out of the game by 1.5 players. Thats one player in front of him, and a half player helping deny the pass over the top. You can spend all your shot clock trying to hammer thru that, or you can take advantage elsewhere. It aint that Adelman can't find the angles and sets to get Yao the ball against the front. Its that the combination of Yao's inability to get a seal even when crossing the lane with a man on his back and the smaller guards difficulty in making passes that Yao can catch on the move that is making the fronting defense difficult. Trust me, if you've thought of some brilliant plan to get Yao the ball and totally defeat the front, Adelman and his staff thought of it months before.
IIRC, when Yao was being fronted, the Spurs were still in 1 on 1 coverage. A defender from the opposite block may have shaded Yao's way a little bit as a deterrent to trying to pass over the top of Yao's defender but there wasn't enough time to swing the ball around and take advantage of the limited space that was being given up. We weren't able to exploit any weaknesses in the Spurs defense when they were fronting Yao. Our scoring opportunities came from 1 on 1 drives and PNR's. After they started fronting Yao, our scoring consisted of 5 layups (2 Lowry, 2 Scola, 1 Artest), Shane's 3 pointer, a Brooks jumper, Yao's putback dunk of an AB miss, and free throws. None of it came as a result of making San Antonio pay for fronting Yao. We conceded feeding Yao in the post and tried to score in other ways. To me, that's not beating the front. That's letting them effectively take away a primary part of your gameplan. Beating the front would be making them pay as a direct result of them overplaying Yao. If they double teamed Yao and he kicked it out for a wide open 3, that would be making them pay as a direct result of double teaming him. Do it often enough effectively and it forces them to stop doubling and play man to man. That's beating a defensive strategy. If there's nothing to deter them from fronting Yao, they're just going to keep doing it. Running PNR's and other plays or letting Artest or Brooks go one on one isn't going to stop them from fronting Yao the next time we try to throw it into the post. Only making them play as a direct result of fronting Yao is going to do that. I have had the same idea about freeing Yao by swinging the ball around and having Yao establish position on the opposite post. I just haven't seen them try that yet. It'd almost be like the re-posts we've done where Yao receives the ball in the middle of the lane. The only difference is that Yao doesn't start with the ball and he goes to the opposite post instead of the middle of the lane (although you might be able to get the ball to him there too).
They were basically fronting him for most if the 4th quarter... and we were able to score on it. Thats beating the fronting defense. What kind of sucks, is when they front Yao, we're not getting Yao the ball unless he can get "open" on the post some other way. But I think the best way to beat it is to attack it. You drive to the basket... Yao's guy can't help because then Yao will be wide open under the basket. Or, for the last two plays Yao did pick and roll with Brooks. They doubled Brooks, Yao was open. Someone would leave Scola to cover Yao and Scola was open... easy basket. The key is that when you front Yao, someone has to be watching him from behind for it to actually work. Meaning they won't be paying attention to their guy. Move the ball around enough and someone should be out of position and we have a good opportunity to score.
More on Adelman: I think of the play with Battier in the corner and AB trying to get it into Yao against Detroit late and Battier's man steals it. Yao is being played essentially by his man and half of Battier's man(Yao's man was behind him) Thats on Adelman. Thats a spacing issue. As to beating the front like you said Cannonball, its not exactly beating if you go away from it. But it is a victory if you don't let the fronting defense bog you down and start jacking up bad shots like we saw in other games earlier this year. The recent trend has been fronting in bursts, because the opponent doesnt want the Rockets to get used to it and be more comfortable in what they are seeing. So when they see the fronting defense, you attack it at first, but you dont force it. The Rockets only had one or two turnovers that resulted from the fronting, which tells me they weren't forcing it as much.
Why does lob the ball not working? Yao is 7'6 and the helping guard is at most 6'4, Yao should just dunk on him easily.
Um, because Yao cant jump, and isnt mobile enough to catch a lob for the most part. And the guards arent tall enough to get that pass up consistently to where it needs to be. Also, more often than not the help is a power forward or at least small forward not guarding Artest. So not exactly a small fry.
Well, if our offense is good enough to get layups, open shots and free throws against the SAN ANTONIO SPURS, then it shouldn't matter that Yao was fronted. You are saying that our offense working has nothing to do with the fact that Yao was fronted and us countering it. Then its a win, win either way right? Or... my theory about us being able to get easy baskets and foul shots AS A RESULT OF the Spurs giving up something when they front Yao has some validity.
I think being able to score in other ways will go a long way to helping us in the Playoffs. Remember the Chicago game? They fronted Yao and we couldn't get the ball to him and the offense stalled and nobody else could score. Having the ability to score even if Yao is made a non factor is part of the equation for winning. The other part is still finding a way to get the ball to Yao despite the front. You're right in that if Yao is neutralized, we can't let that bog down the offense. But I still feel it's necessary to figure out a way to get ball to Yao if we're going to be successful in the postseason. That way our offensive options aren't being limited.
true, but there have been times where teams were just using the 1 or 2 guard as the shadow at the back. to me a lob pass is pretty basic stuff in bball, but it seems on the current roster only barry, lowry and hayes can throw a decent one to yao. maybe a lob to yao is different? idk. hayes tried one today and yao failed to catch it in the middle. to me yao looked a little surprised at the pass. if the communication was better, i believe that pass from chuck would've become an easy dunk for yao. they just need to practice, on different tactics. i don't believe teams should be allowed to take yao out of the game that easy. i also believe, firmly, that for every move there is a counter move.
