OK, I'm on the fence in the Casey Martin case -- I think both sides have some valid arguments, but this is just f***ed up. There's absolutely no reason not to let this kid play. NONE. http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/story?id=1225281 TAMPA, Fla. -- People who disagree with the Supreme Court's decision to allow Casey Martin to ride a golf cart in PGA Tour events now have more fodder for the "Where will it all end?" argument. Likewise, the other side can shake its head at the latest ammunition, too. The disabilites vs. golf rules debate has heated up in Tampa thanks to Matthew Ross, an autistic boy who is something of a natural on the golf course. Matthew has won junior tournament titles in the 6-8 age group and regularly breaks 100, even though he can't tell you any of his scores. And that's the problem, according to the Greater Tampa Junior Golf Association, which has ruled Ross ineligible because he can't keep his own scorecard. Once a golfer reaches the age of 9, Rule 6-6 (d) in the Rules of Golf states, in part: "The competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his card." Susan Ross, Matthew's mother, has asked for a waiver, but the GTJGA won't budge. "These guys treat it like a business," Susan Ross told Golf World magazine. "Matthew just wants to play." "If we make an exception, we are undermining the integrity of the competition," association president Brian Code told The Tampa Tribune. "I have no idea where this would stop. The rules are very, very specific." Susan Ross is frustrated because golf has been her son's only true outlet from the lonely world of autism. Early in his life, Matthew was confined to a wheelchair and unable to speak. Doctors didn't give much hope for improvement. But Matthew took a turn for the better at age 3, and Susan Ross noticed his excitement whenever they drove past a driving range. Hoping for a breakthrough, she took Matthew to a teaching pro. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
I sure don't understand how making an exception to keeping one's own scorecard fundamentally alters the game. It's not as if he'd be given an advantage over other players by having someone else keep his score for him. ------------------ Why not visit MovieForums.com? Or FilmDallas.com?
Isn't it obvious? The decrease in mental stress from scorekeeping would provide an unfair advantage for this young man. Whatever . Just let the kid play... next thing you know players who don't adjust their caps correctly will be kicked off. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
Rules have to be absolute, or they by definition are not rules. If the kid can't keep his own scorecard, then he should not be in the tournament. Also, appealing to emotions in this case is stupid. The boy can't tell you what his score was, so he is obviously playing for the love of the game, and nothing else. I am sure there are other tournaments for him to play. Also, I am sure his family could create situations where the boy feels like a winner every time he plays. After all, this situation should be determined by that young man's emotions, not our guilt.<font color="white"> ------------------ [This message has been edited by Kingrene (edited July 12, 2001).]
Well this man can't keep his own score but that doesn't stop him from playing. ------------------ Ceo of the Walt Williams and Lisa Malosky fan club. atheistalliance.org
I don't play golf but aren't you penalized if you make mistakes on your scorecard? This certainly makes it an issue in a competition. If the kid wants to play golf then let him play golf. Golf tournaments are a different matter though. There have to be rules and guidelines. It seems the parents are more interested in him winning trophies than in just letting him play the game. ------------------ First the Sopranos and now Eddie Griffin... thank you New Jersey!
So even if the rules themselves are illegal, they should be followed (if a cart is a reasonable accomodation, then letting someone else keep score will most certainly be a reasonable accomodation)? By the way, I'm pretty sure that most golf organizations do not require the golfer to keep his own score. I don't think PGA Tour golfers are required to keep their own scorecard. By the way, in the 2000 USGA Rules of Golf, rule 6-6(d) says nothing about golfers themselves being required to keep score, only that he's responsible for the score being accurate. The USGA rules say: 6-6. Scoring in Stroke Play a. Recording Scores After each hole the marker should check the score with the competitor and record it. On completion of the round the marker shall sign the card and hand it to the competitor. If more than one marker records the scores, each shall sign for the part for which he is responsible. b. Signing and Returning Card After completion of the round, the competitor should check his score for each hole and settle any doubtful points with the Committee. He shall ensure that the marker has signed the card, countersign the card himself and return it to the Committee as soon as possible. c. Alteration of Card No alteration may be made on a card after the competitor has returned it to the Committee. d. Wrong Score for Hole The competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his card. If he returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken, he shall be disqualified. If he returns a score for any hole higher than actually taken, the score as returned shall stand. ------------------ Why not visit MovieForums.com? Or FilmDallas.com?
Regardless of how anyone feels on the matter, the following appears to be the key sentence in the story: "These guys treat it like a business," Susan Ross told Golf World magazine. "Matthew just wants to play." If Matthew wants to play, let him play. Why do his folks want him to play in tournaments? I would think that he doesn't even realize he is in a tournament, or if he does realize it, he doesn't understand how he is doing compared to the rtest of the players. ------------------
Well if a rule is illegal then obviously it should be changed. The courts can make that determination I guess. How can he be responsible for the accuracy of his score if he doesn't know how to score? It would seem the rules intent is to make certain the competitor is able to check his scoring to ensure it's validity. Giving the responsibility of scoring to someone else completely was probably not the intent of the rule. If there's a discrepancy on his card is he going to be able to "settle any doubtful points with the Committee"? If he can't score he surely can't exchange opinions with a Committee on his score. Is the PGA or USGA even associated with the GTJGA? Little League Baseball isn't played according to MLB rules. ------------------ First the Sopranos and now Eddie Griffin... thank you New Jersey!
USGA sets the generally accepted Rules of Golf. The meaning of the rules regarding the golfer being responsible for the accuracy of his scorecard means that if there is a mistake on the card, the golfer is penalized even if it isn't his mistake. There was a PGA tournament not too long ago where a golfer signed his card even though there was a mistake on it, and he was penalized for it. That's all that making the golfer responsible for his the accuracy of the scorecard has meant in practice. ------------------ Why not visit MovieForums.com? Or FilmDallas.com? [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited July 12, 2001).]
MrPaige! I am surprised at you. You don't know if that tournament is governed by USGA rules, do you? TSK, TSK. ------------------
It might not be, BUT since apparently just about everyone else uses different rules, it seems a little disingenuous to talk about how The Rules must be followed, etc., especially when we're talking about a rule that won't hold up to court scrutiny and wouldn't be a rule nearly everywhere else. And since the story itself makes reference to The Rules of Golf (which is generally accepted to be the USGA version), the thought that they play under USGA rules seems to not be much of a jump. ------------------ Why not visit MovieForums.com? Or FilmDallas.com? [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited July 12, 2001).] [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited July 12, 2001).]
It is a child playing a game. There are more important things to worry about than a scorecard or who gets to play golf (of all sports). ------------------ How the hell should I know why God would allow the Holocaust. I don't even know how the electric can opener works. - from Hannah and Her Sisters
This is exactly why golf will never get the new generation of fans that they want like basketball or football or baseball gets. First they isolate the community of disabled people by pushing the cart issue as far as they do. Now they're pushing away the children of the sport by enforcing crazy rules like this. The result? The casual fan is sick of golf and consider them a bunch of stuffy, overbearing individuals. In fact, the only reason golf is mainstream at all is Tiger Woods, and now golfers and hardcore fans are complaining ABOUT HIM! So you push away kids, you push away the disabled, you push away your cash cow, and you wonder why people are growing tired of golf!? ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 12, 2001).]
In fact, the only reason golf is mainstream at all is Tiger Woods, and now golfers and hardcore fans are complaining ABOUT HIM! Yep... The latest on Tiger Woods is that he demanded $2 million just to play in a tournament in New Zealand. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
If all he wants to do is play, then take him to a public course and let him play. I am sure he does not give a damn about playing in tournaments, sounds like his parents have the problem not the little boy. DaDakota ------------------ How long do I have to endure this ?
you guys all make great points... I feel private organizations should be able to regulate their own rules and set their own standards without any interference of the courts... with regards to the discrimination argument, people get discriminated all the time and not know it...its life, you just have to deal with it people! does Harvard or Yale ever accept people who are born poor and dumb? they don't look at sympathetic personal reasons to accept you to their school, its just based on strict standards...do you think I can ever join the WNBA because I'm a dude? ------------------
Do you think the NBA should be able to say "if you're not 6 foot 5 inches, you can't play in the NBA" even if you're otherwise completely capable of playing? Rules have to have logic and reason behind them -- these really don't seem to. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
BahDakota, Very true. But, in the case of parent with an autistic child, this is most likely the only athletic (and possibly even other) accomplishment a child in such a condition may ever have. Isn't it a little unsympathetic to take that small bit of satisfaction away from parents who already suffer? The kid's dad will never see his son play little league. His mom won't get to help him get ready for the prom. The parents won't get to watch as their son walks across the stage to accept his high school and/or college diploma. For the most part I side with Casey Martin. I do think the cart gives him an advantage, but he is already at a disadvantage, so the sum gain is not there. But, in this instance, I am 100% behind letting this kid play, and it's not just emotions. The kid is not gaining any advantage over his competitors, plain and simple. And, while we're on the subject of "rules". Rules should not be absolute. Rules are there to regulate the norm, not the extraordinary. Special circumstances calls for special consideration. ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page
