1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Free Agent Target: Fred VanVleet (UFA)

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by larsv8, Apr 18, 2023.

  1. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,912
    [​IMG]

    6-1 PG / SG
    29 years old
    - 37% Career 3pt %, down to 34% in the current year.
    - 54% Career TS %
    - Neutral defender
    - Not a real PG, more of a SG in a PGs body
    - Bit of a down year.
    - Known as a lockeroom leader
    - He will want BIG money, probably 30m



     
    don grahamleone, Rudyc281 and xaos like this.
  2. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    15,459
    Likes Received:
    9,145
    Sort of feel like this is exactly the type of deal we should try to avoid this offseason, to be honest. Should try to avoid getting locked into a 4-year max or near max deal for a guy who isn't a superstar and is already getting close to the end of his prime. FVV would obviously make us a lot better in the short term, but he could also really wreck our cap space in two or three years when we might really be wishing we had some.
     
    Ren ason, napalm06, Y2JT and 10 others like this.
  3. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 1999
    Messages:
    13,311
    Likes Received:
    14,020
    What can I say…I’ve always liked him. If we are moving forward with Jalen at the 2, we’ll need a point guard that can defend, play off ball and shoot the 3. I also think we need some champions in this locker room. Not saying he’s the best fit and contract numbers matter, but he’s the best pg on the FA market and we are the most pg-needy team out there.
     
  4. RasaqBoi

    RasaqBoi Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    17,079
    Likes Received:
    20,703
    Reminds me of a few minutes away from being a Houston Rockets Legend - Damon Stoudamire.
     
  5. FLAGRANT1

    FLAGRANT1 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    624
    He's the alternative if we don't get Harden.
     
  6. jimmyv281

    jimmyv281 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,880
    Likes Received:
    1,777
    This guy can’t play defense - a super David Wesley.
     
  7. Houston77

    Houston77 COOKIES AND CAKE, MY TEAM BAKED!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,900
    Likes Received:
    13,102
    Huh? FVV is a decent defender.

    upload_2023-4-18_23-49-15.png
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    123,631
    Likes Received:
    32,492
    He is the definition of an average player..

    DD
     
  9. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8,807
    Likes Received:
    11,181
    Nice player but I don't want to pay him the $40m a year it would take to sign him. Let someone else make that mistake.

    At $25m per .... sure, count me in.
     
    raining threes and saleem like this.
  10. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    87,860
    Likes Received:
    42,161
    Made All Star 1x.
    All NBA selection 0x.
     
  11. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    17,992
    Likes Received:
    17,583
    FVV for his career is an above average defender. When playing with average rim protectors in Poeltl and previously Ibaka/Gasol, he's an above average defender. Defense is more impacted by teammates than offense, take that to the grave with you. The Raptors defense was 14th on the backs of their point of attack and wing defenders making up for the fact that they had no competent rim protectors before acquiring Poeltl. They improved to 11th on defense after acquiring Poeltl. In essence, FVV has shown that with good wing defenders (Tari/Jabari?) you can get a Sengun-level rim protector to 14th defensive rating in the NBA which is stunning.

    For the 90 millionth time, defense is half the possessions in a game. When a player plays 40 minutes, they played roughly 20 minutes of defense and 20 minutes of offense. The difference in impact between an average and bad defender is VAST.

    He also plays with a playmaker (Siakam) so that will naturally reduce his assists much like Murray/Jokic, Fox/Sabonis or Draymond/Curry. Barnes also handles a good chunk of setting up offense. FVV is a PG who is taking too many shots, which is what brings about his poor FG% (I've read opinions that Siakam protects him in the organization because they're good friends). He's averaged close or better than 3:1 asst/to ratio several times, that's elite floor general play. He's not a SG by any means, he's a good shooter and passer and nothing else on offense. He has at times appeared to have a clutch gene in him, but that's under question by Raptors fans now. The title they won might have been the easiest path to a title in NBA history, but still I consider it priceless to have coaches and players with championship experience on the roster next season.

    Would love him on the team but not at the price he's expecting. IF we could somehow convince him to opt-in and extend, then I would certainly consider him over Harden. FVV @ $25m-$30m, age 28 to 32 with championship experience over Harden @ $45m-$52m at age 34 to 38. He has championship experience, plays defense and is excellent at setting up an NBA offense. He's played around championship star scorers, which is great experience for playing around the likes of Green and Sengun. Offensively those two need to be fed very much like Siakam and Kawhi.

    If done as an opt-in and extend I STILL think he's overpaid, but it's probably only be a few million and I'm happy to overpay him a little for 2 seasons before moving on from his contract if needed. The last 2 years of that deal will be tradable after new CBA salaries come into play. Not my favorite option, but if these guys are hell bent on signing someone outright, I'd overpay him over other "over-payable" options. It's kind of lucky for us he had a down year because the chatter about him earning max or near max has gone quiet. I think it's possibly he opts in and takes a risk or opts in and extends.

    The scenario that would REALLY protect us is an opt-in and extend (add 3 years) with the final season being a team option or partial guarantee. That way after he's mentored this team a couple of seasons, he's essentially an expiring big contract with good championship experience and still 31 years old. We won't be stuck with that contract.
     
    #11 Mathloom, Apr 19, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2023
    HTownTmac1 and peleincubus like this.
  12. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    45,099
    Likes Received:
    126,152
    this would be a terrible acquisition…he’s not that guy

    and people need to stop it with these random advanced stats to claim someone is or isn’t a good defender…they’re pretty much all crap

    FVV is inefficient, undersized, and injury prone

    people say Harden sucks in the playoffs meanwhile Freddie doesn’t even shoot 40% from the field for his postseason career and is rocking a pristine 53% TS for the playoffs

    the best thing that could be said about him is that he can be trusted to run a team better than KPJ
     
    solid, YOLO, jordnnnn and 3 others like this.
  13. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    Messages:
    11,626
    Likes Received:
    16,171
    Folks trying to convince others that FVV could b a better alternative than harden.

    pffft.
     
  14. YaoMac09

    YaoMac09 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,847
    Likes Received:
    2,390
    Signing him for the $$$ he’s looking for would be the ultimate mid move.
     
  15. Jontro

    Jontro Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    34,234
    Likes Received:
    21,906
    fw is the beard we deserve, not the beard we need
     
  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    71,667
    Likes Received:
    108,862
  17. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    87,860
    Likes Received:
    42,161
    6’1 is the size we deserve.
     
    Jontro and eman like this.
  18. eman

    eman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,240
    Likes Received:
    1,709
    Are you hinting we're going to take Jamal Shead in the second round? Because I can see him turning into a far better-defending version of Fred VanVleet. Don't get me wrong though: I'd rather he take the Coogs all the way in '24, then we pick him in '25.
     
    daywalker02 likes this.
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,527
    Likes Received:
    35,901
    Could create a logjam?
     
  20. theDude

    theDude Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    4,061
    [​IMG]
     
    Rokman, Aruba77, kjayp and 3 others like this.

Share This Page