Francis vs. Kidd and Payton first and second year stats

What's significant is Payton's 1st and 2nd year stats. Based on the numbers, no way is he a good/great point guard much less a future hall of famer! But guess what...

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Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!

 

What's significant is Payton's 1st and 2nd year stats. Based on the numbers, no way is he a good/great point guard much less a future hall of famer! But guess what...

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Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!

 

Very good post, this is making me seriously reconsider my Dickerson over Francis post.

I believe you have changed my mind.

Great post, great post indeed !!!

DaDakota

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If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?

[This message has been edited by DaDakota (edited November 08, 2000).]

 

The thing that needs to be taken into consideration when evaluating PGs is that this is the toughest position to learn hands down. It usually takes a PG till his third season to become productive unless his name is Magic Johnson. Aside from Kidd and Payton which are excellent examples, John Stockton was also in the same boat. Stockton was a BACKUP until his third season.

Francis being able to have a ROY type season while learning the PG position is a testament to exactly how talented this kid is. I was very impressed that someone with only 1 yr of major college experience where he was not even the full time PG could develop his game so quickly. Impatient observers just dont give him enough props for this kind of accomplishment. This is not some minor feat unless you are destined for greatness.

Francis makes some mistakes and boneheaded plays but that is not something abnormal for a young pointman. Its not like Francis is in the boat where Iverson was being completely unable/unwilling to run the point. Francis is making every effort possible and is improving faster than many impatient observers think.

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It would be nice to know who Payton and Kidd were feeding the ball to during those early years.
Francis has a higher scoring average probably because he gets more attempts, and has no go-to guy to give the ball to.

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No DaDakota, don't change your mind. Rumor has it, we're sending Franchise and a couple #1's to Vanc. for Michael. That will brighten your day pal.

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"I know how hard it is to put food on your family." George W. Bush

 

gr8-1,

Can we get Swift as a throw in, now that is a trade I would make.

DaDakota

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If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?

 

SSG-
A couple things you forgot was the minutes/game. Stevie played 39.2 minutes/game, Kidd played 33.8 and Payton only 27.4. So especially for Payton he played much less minutes than Stevie. A fairer comparison is producivity/minute.
Plus after 20 fames or so it was Stevie's team. Kidd, I believe, I feeding Jimmy Jackson & Jamaal Mashburn.

 

Payton came into a team that was already playoff-caliber. So he worked his way in slowly. Plus, he was splitting time with a good defensive point guard in Nate McMillan his first couple of years. As for assists / scoring, he had a lot of good players to dish off to, and no real need to put up points himself. Shawn Kemp was a 4th or 5th option on teams that included sharpshooters Ricky Pierce and Eddie Johnson (oh, mother!), the all-around talents of Derrick McKey, and Xavier McDaniel was there scoring 20+ during the Glove's rookie season.

Those were deep teams. Seattle back then tried to do something similar to what Portland is trying now: win with an ensemble cast.

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You guys hit on the points already, but I thought I'd chime in.

Kidd had 2 other "big guns" to go to on his team in Mashburn and Jackson. Don't even bother looking at Kidd's scoring because he NEVER looks to score unless no one else is available. He was also a poor shooter from what I remember when he first got into the league. From what I remember they almost had to force Kidd to take shots. He was still one hell of a playmaker in his first season, though.

Francis has scored more points than either of the two, but I know Kidd was a bonafied point guard (with no jumpshot) in his first year. I don't remember how well Payton played his first year, though.

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A friend of mine graduated from law school in May, and he's had a heck of a time finding work....He might be a moron, though. (I don't think he is, but one never knows. He was a moron when we were five years-old.) -- mrpaige reflects on his friends