Francis in the same class as the Big O, Magic & Grant Hill

nice... good for mr. francis.

 

Steve sucks....trade him for Carlos Arroyo and a bean burrito.

 

woww i think your askin for a little to much there buddy i was thinkin more like Arroyo and a stick of gum.

 

Way to go Franchise!!! How ya like me now!

 

Are we talking a Taco Bell bean burrito or a Taco Bueno bean burrito?

 

Nice accomplishment for steve, obviously since only three others have ever done it. Congrats.

However, lets not put him "in the same class" as the Big O. Much like Chamberlain, his numbers where down right mythic. 1961-62 season read 31 pts, 11 reb, 12 asst. (I believe those are right, if not, they are close and still freakin amazing). That is just a bit more than 15, 5, and 5. People talk about the season he averaged a triple double (as I just did), but if you take his averages for his first 5 years combined, it averages out to a triple double for his first five years! That is bloody amazing. Oh yeah, the rules where a bit different back then. During his playing career, if a player dribbled once, then no assist was awarded on the play. Think about that for a moment. His was the case, and he was the all time assist leader for over 20 years until Magic broke it under the new rule for awarding assists.

Again, Congrats Steve, well done! But lets not even begin to put him in O's class.

 

Undervalued and underappreciated. Just like any other superstar...

 

Now wait, seriously guys......this is great news.

Lets celebrate ........... cause this will increase his trade value!!!!!!

So forget Bean Burrito....I'm thinking we could actually get lucky and steel a Quesidilla...... and Quentin Richardson out of this!!!

 

It's really quite annoying that people will "invent" such combo-stats to prop up players. This 15/5/5 thing I believe has been mentioned throughout Steve's career, and the media is now using it(or something similar) to prop up Lebron.

No one in his right mind would think Steve to be even half the player that Magic or Oscar are. And the pre-injury Grant Hill was definitely a class above Steve.

 

To even suggest that Steve Francis is in the "same class" as Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson is laughable. I have seen them all play; not even close.

 

To give y'all a little better perspective, here are the averages for these 4 players in their first 5 years:

Name ppg; rpg; apg; spg; topg

Francis 19.42; 6.18; 6.38; 1.60; 3.72
Hill 20.74; 8.00; 6.38; 1.66; 3.32
Johnson 18.52; 8.36; 9.80; 2.58; 4.00
Robertson 30.28; 10.38; 10.62

Several amazing things:
1. Robertson averaged triple-double.
2. Magic Johnson increased his assist number in each of his first 5 years, starting with 7.3 as a rookie, ending with 13.1 in year 5. He averaged at least 11 assists from year 5 to year 12.
3. Hill, the only non-PG in the group, averaged the same assist number as Francis.
4. Johnson's number of steals is also way above those of Francis and Hill. I wonder what would Robertson's steal and turnover stats be had they kept those records back then.

 

hill has 8 assist, francis 6

 

No, Steve is not is the same class as those players (possibly Hill maybe). However, those are very impressive stats and he is the only person to put those numbers up who is playing right now. Who knows how those players would have fared aganst zone defenses. As much as many here want to deny it, Steve Francis is a premier player in the NBA. The only guy that I trade him for is McGrady or if the Lakers have to S&T Kobe. Otherwise we won't get equal value and we're taking a step back.

 

Grant Hill pre-injury was pretty awesome.

i remember one season he had 21 points 9 rebounds 7 assists. That's like heyday pippen... would have been better than pippen had he not gotten injured.

 

In Grant Hill's fourth season, Detroit didn't make the playoffs with Stackhouse, and Bison Deli. Grant Hill and Steve are on the same level, neither one are on the Big O's and Magic's level, but there is no way Grant is a level higher than Steve.

 

Have you watched Hill's play or just checked the stats? He wasn't hyped for
no reason. On the other hand, Francis, with similar stats, is one of the most
bashed players.

 

i don't like that analysis.

you fail to mention that Hill got his team to the playoffs his 2nd and 3rd seasons. also, that season they had a coaching change i think. dele was aquired through trade, and while he was good... i mean you make it sound like he's an all star. stackhouse was young back then, i looked it up he averaged 15 points, 3 boards, 3 assists. you know who puts up those numbers, even better? cat mobley.

 

Exactly my point, they are similar players.

 

And they led their teams to a similar amount of wins after those first four seasons. Detroit didn't win a lot more games Hill's first four seasons than the Rockets won under Steve, and Detroit was no better than a first round exit.

Hill is not on another level.