A lot has been made of moving Francis to the two guard spot to make him "more effective" and a better scorer. Ridiculous. Do you honestly believe he won't still command the double team at the two? I would take his ball handling and passing skills over any other Rocket at this point. Here's the deal with the point guard position. It is a widely held belief by many NBA scouts and writers that it takes a point guard AT LEAST 3 years to learn the NBA game and begin to assert himself. Francis is in the top 5 in the West and in the top 10 in the NBA in point guards after only ONE YEAR. Imagine his development after three. The only point guard who came in and made an INSTANT impact without the significant mistakes, etc, was Magic Johnson and his size made him unique among point guards in the history of the game. None of the great point guards to play the game in the modern era came in and dominated the game. We may be impatient fans but we should at least be educated fans. It takes a great deal of time to compete on a high level every night in the NBA. Even Air Jordan needed 6 seasons before he could make the finals. We have this year and likely next of struggling and roster adjustments before we are able to find the right chemistry and gain enough experience to compete for the playoffs let alone challenge for a title. We all need to relax and enjoy the games without going into sheer panic over the wins and losses. ------------------ Time for a new cause.
The question I've been wanting to ask the two Francis camps is: What kind of PG do you want: Marbury/Payton who ISO a lot and look to score the most on the team and get assists when double-teamed, or Bibby/Kidd who look to run an offense that spreads scoring around thus limiting the amount of times they personally are double-teamed? Both have merits, but the later takes much longer. IMO Francis desires to be the later, but is having trouble with the aggressive double-teams that want the ball out of his hands.
Also, ask yourself: Do you want Francis to score big points and take all the 4th Q shots, because you have him on your fantasy team and people are giving you the business for him not putting up the numbers? Yeah...let's just low post Francis over and over like Payton.
Jeff, what audacity. You want these Rockets posters to be educated? Haven't you read what this board is all about? This board is all about saying anything you want to, and if anyone disagrees, they should not read your posts and keep it to themselves. It's the American way. Let ignorance prevail. We don't need no education. ------------------
HeyP, Neither. I want Francis to be the best PG, and player, he can be. To do that he's got to utilize his strengths. Francis is a better scorer than Kidd or Bibby. Bottom line - if Kidd could shoot, or Bibby had the quick first step and scorer's mentality, they would average more points. Their teams allow them to flourish by playing their own game - pass first, scoring only as an afterthought. But Francis isn't Gary Payton, either. GP is a big PG who can carry an offense in the post or by shooting from outside (along with being an incredible defender). He's called on to score the points for his team, and does it well. Steve is closer to Marbury in his game, but IMHO Marbury is too selfish a player. I'm glad Francis wants to go another, more balanced direction. Why pigeon-hole the guy? I want the ball in the hands of my franchise player, and let him make the plays, using his god-given athleticism, speed, and passing instincts. To force him into some sort of mold, based on other players, would stifle his development. ------------------
Francis is a Payton wannabe. He has the scoring instincts, the rebounding ability and has the potential to be a great passing guard. The only thing i don´t see in him now is Payton´s ability to SHUT DOWN the opposing team´s PG. That will come with time. Only a fool would want him to be a pass first, shoot as the 11th option when the kid has so much talent to score. I second Jeff´s thoughts. Moving him to SG would NOT stop the double teams and would only set the other teams BEST defender on him. Give it time. I´m not sure about this, but I doubt Payton was this good as sophomore. Our problems don´t lie in Francis. Our problem is coaching. The frontcourt has to be involved and the ISO´s must stop. It´s the coaches´ job to that. ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true"
Jeff and Heypartner, I'm going out on a limb and stating for the record that I think Francis RIGHT NOW is a better off-guard than a point guard. Why? As a point guard he has too much control over the offense, especially considering his propensity to turn the ball over and make errant passes at times. As an off-guard he'll have the ball less ( in theory) and score a little more in our offense. This should also cut down on our turnovers. I know moving him to the two will never happen because of Cuttino and Shandon at the two, but neither of you should be so contemptuous at the suggestion of something perfectly feasible and quite possibly better for the team. People talk all day about how 6-7 assists per game isn't bad. And I agree, until I move a line over in the box score or watch a game where he has 6-7 turnovers. Have either of you seen his assist to turnover ratio? It's pretty ugly. There are many better point guards in this league than Francis in terms of putting that hat on and having it fit. Francis has capability, but he isn't using it. I can't tell if his poor play is due to coaching (I doubt it), personal decision making (seems like it to me), or every team in the league swarming on him. I know it's a mixture of those three, and I'm inclined to say that the last two are the most relevant. Heypartner, you mentioned Bibby. So I will too. He is a better point guard than Steve Francis. He was last year and he is this year. But he has one more year under his belt than Steve does. So next year if Francis doesn't resemble the Bibby/Kidd style of point guards will you consider the move to the off-guard for Francis? Make no mistake about it: I want Francis to be our point guard. I want him to get better-and quickly-but he is our point guard right now. I wish we had a veteran point guard to groom him. Sometimes I think that he was thrown into the mix too soon and could use the saavy that an old man could teach him. But that's tangential... Look, just don't be so dismissive of others' views. Both of you have come out and absolutely dismissed perfectly plausible arguments that Francis needs to play the off-guard. Can either of you see the benefits of such a move? Call it a challenge... ------------------ Vice-president of the Jason Collier Police
P1S2, I do not want, nor do I think it would be good, for Francis to be like Bibby and Kidd. I want him to be like Payton, or even Cassell. These are pgs who look to score, assists come off of their "flow" in the offense. If you look at Payton, it wasn't until 4 years ago that his assists got over 8 per game. It took a while for Cassell as well. On the other hand, it took years for Kidd to average 14 ppg! Francis has a lot to learn, undoubtedly, but that does not include changing his game so that his natural ability/impulses are destroyed. Many of his turnovers come from palming the ball, teammates not catching "surprise" passes (too many times!), and from dibbling himself into danger. These are fixed with time. It is not as if he does not have good passing instincts or ability. Even right now, he is better as a 1. He works best with the ball in hishands, otherwise, he seems a little hesitant. Last game he slid to the two and was no more involved with Moochie handling the ball. He had a bad game at both the 1 and 2. Period. This will happen. I think the response from Jeff and heypartner is a reaction to people giving up on Francis too early and trying to make him less effective. That is never better for the team. ------------------ EZLN
What about the "Terrell Brandon" style point guard? The one who looks to create for others but is blessed with such naturla scoring flair that they can't help but rack up big offensive numbers too. The impression that Francis gives is that he would like to be a player who makes his team better by getting them involved, but at the same time he's going to score because that's what an important part of him involving teammates. SamCassell: Francis is just as big as Payton - try looking at them standing next to each other! ------------------
You don't say! Didn't realize that Payton was only 6'3" but sho 'nuff. Maybe Francis needs to develop some post-up skills. That left block's been looking awfully empty lately! ------------------
HP, I want Francis to be both, but at this time he is neither. One game he looks to dominate the game, running ISO after ISO wasting time dribbling all around the court and getting frustrated when he gets called for carrying the ball. The next game he looks to spread the ball around, but ends up driving and passes into a collapsing defense and taking himself out of the game flow. What he is going to do in the future doesn't matter right now. The point I have been trying to make is that he is making the same rookie mistakes repeatedly, every game. I understand that he is barely into his second NBA season, but I've seen little improvement thus far over last season. I haven't seen him fight over one double team yet this season. He's passing up easy shots just to get a teammate involved and he isn't getting them involved when he should. I understand that it sounds like a lot of b****ing, but I hate seeing it over and over every night. Moving him to the 2 is not the answer. Francis needs to do what comes naturally and not be confined to being a prototypical PG or SG. I agree with P1S2 on one thing. He is more of an off-guard than a point guard and I think in that type of role he would be most effective. If Francis would just get out there and play his style of game while not being overly selfish, this team could be a real force. ------------------ Only in America....do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.
I want francis to become a Marbury type player. Marbury doesnt get his points from shooting crazy long range shots, he uses his body to drive in and score. Francis drives in and gets scared. Francis needs to take more good shots. ------------------ Lets Tank it Baby!
You read my mind Doc! Brandon is the one player I think Francis compares to the most with one exception, I think Francis will be better than Terrell. They both have similar body styles, quickness and a knack for scoring. ------------------ Only in America....do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.
Marbury? No thanks. I should correct your statement about Marbury getting his points by driving in and scoring to read he gets most of his points by jacking up enough shots. His 43% FG percentage last year is ridiculous for a PG that's going to look to shoot a lot. A PG with a low FG% combined with a lot of shots per game equals a PG who probably shouldn't be one. I haven't looked at what he's doing this year, but it can't be much worse. I've seen future comparisons to Kidd and Payton, and I think those are PG-types I'd rather have running the team. On a team with as few "go-to" guys as we have during clutch time, Francis has to be a scoring PG. If he and Mobley don't score or at least give the threat of scoring, our offense will get shut down. ------------------ A friend of mine graduated from law school in May, and he's had a heck of a time finding work....He might be a moron, though. (I don't think he is, but one never knows. He was a moron when we were five years-old.) -- mrpaige reflects on his friends
You left out one important element: experience. Like I said, it is well considered a fact that point guards require three full seasons[/i] to establish themselves at their position. Francis has barely had one. Bibby is not expected to score. If he puts up 7 shots per night and averages 10 points, that's fine by the Grizz at this point. However, the Rockets want and need Francis to score. Bibby doesn't have Francis' scoring ability anyway even if they needed him to score. Bibby is a better point guard but Francis is by far a better player and that is the real key. Francis assist/turnover ratio is not great but that is because he is asked to do more in the offense than Bibby will ever be asked to. I would far prefer Francis to develop a scorer's game with passing skills rather than a passing game with scorer's skills. With all due respect to your user name, I would prefer Francis Shoot 1st and Pass 2nd. That is more his game. Having said that, I also want him to keep the turnovers down. That is easier if you know your teammates and aren't constantly being double teamed while deciding whether or not you need to pass or score. In the case of Bibby, he faces no double teams and is not asked to score. If that were the case with Francis, I'm sure he could handle it with ease but would it be utilizing all of his talents. Absolutely not. ------------------ Time for a new cause.
Jeff, Francis doesn't need to take the bulk of the shots. If his assists stack up, his field goal percentage should get better as he finds teammates with better opportunities. That's if he plays point guard. Francis is a better scorer than Bibby, but that doesn't mean that Francis needs to score more than Bibby. Bibby is a stable player. If Francis could do that and build from there then we could prove that Francis is a better player. Right now I'd rather have Bibby at the point because he is playing better. Period. You talk about experience. But Francis is playing worse than he did last year. As a two guard, he would do what you want-score-but we keep the ball out of his hands up and down the court and encourage him to move more WITHOUT the ball. Less turnovers there. But on the whole, I agree with you-Francis should shoot first, pass second. I just think that if that's the route you want to go we either need a solid small forward to help distribute the ball (and prevent us from going inside out again), or Francis needs to slide into the off-guard role. I am having a hard time putting my thoughts together coherently right now. Too much reading and politics watching. So I'll go for now. But can you see ANY advantages in moving Francis to the off-guard slot? Leave politics aside and try for a moment. ------------------ Vice-president of the Jason Collier Police
I honestly see no value in moving him to the two guard spot. The main reason is because the Rockets are committed to him as their point guard and putting him at two would only slow that development. I view that as a waste. Francis DOES have to score. He is their leading scorer and will have to remain that way until another player comes along on this team that is better than him. At this point, this is HIS team and he must assert himself. Being a point guard does not require him to be John Stockton or even Mike Bibby. His job is to be creative and score. I do not agree that Franics is playing worse than last year. I simply think that defenses have adjusted to his style of play and he has to change his game to get around that. It is an ineveitable part of being a great player. ------------------ Time for a new cause.
Jeff, Thanks (seriously) for answering my question. We disagree, but at least you laid out you argument (if that's what you want to call it ) Have fun watching the game. P1st,S2nd ------------------ Vice-president of the Jason Collier Police
What kind of PG do you want: Marbury/Payton who ISO a lot and look to score the most on the team and get assists when double-teamed Sounds good to me. I think he's more suited to that type of game, anyway. ------------------ My dream job is to be a Houston Rockets towel boy.
Now I have to disagree with your user name P1st S2nd. If we had Shaq on our team would you want this to happen? ------------------ Miggidy Markell says: 1. Eastcoast is da sh*t 2. Rockets rule 3. Hip/Hop is dope 4. Buy the new Ruff Ryders album! Miggidy Markell is watching Stay STRAPPED & WATCH ya back or be Assimilated.
