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France is still talking smack

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Mr. Clutch, May 23, 2003.

  1. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Chirac to embarrass Bush at G8 conference
    By Philip Delves Broughton and Pav Akhtar in Paris
    (Filed: 22/05/2003)


    President Chirac is preparing to embarrass President Bush at the forthcoming G8 summit in France by laying out an agenda heavy on environmental, development and economic issues and light on the fight against terrorism.


    Jacques Chirac
    The summit at Evian on June 2 and June 3 will be the first time M Chirac and Mr Bush have met since their diplomatic war preceding military action in Iraq. However, M Chirac, as the host, is arranging the meeting on his terms.

    He made clear yesterday that, despite the debacle over Iraq, he is clinging to his vision of a global balance of powers, with France as an alternative to America.

    He said Evian's main goal would be "to build the institutions and rules of a global democracy, open and interconnected", a swipe at the American administration, which has little patience for such rhetoric.

    The main themes of the summit would be reviving the world economy, solidarity with poor countries, responding to pandemics such as Aids, climate change and finally the fight against terrorism.

    The White House would have preferred the fight against terrorism to head the list, but M Chirac is loath to let the summit become a victory lap for Mr Bush.

    M Chirac said the summit was a chance for "nations to show that they can and want to get along, to act together in the service of mankind". He believes many countries are suspicious of America's leadership and prefer France's emphasis on international rules and institutions.

    He added that the summit should offer a "message of confidence" in the world economy. The G8's members (France, America, Britain, Japan, Germany, Italy, Canada and Russia) were "determined to pursue the structural reforms which improve the efficiency of our economies" and "resolved to lower taxes and social charges to free the creative energies for growth and employment".

    It was important to reaffirm "the principles of the responsible market economy" after so many financial scandals in Europe and America and to complete the Doha round of world trade talks.

    That last ambition, coupled with M Chirac's talk of Third World development, will raise smirks in Whitehall, since it is his refusal to reform Europe's common agricultural policy to the detriment of French farmers which has crippled Third World agricultural exporters trying to crack the European market.

    M Chirac's speech came the day before France was expected to vote in favour of a United Nations resolution lifting sanctions against Iraq.

    French diplomats remain baffled and exasperated at how the Americans have frozen them out since the Iraq war. But they hope the successful passing of the resolution will restore Washington's confidence in the UN.

    On Tuesday night anti-globalisation groups announced plans to sabotage the summit. France is to close Evian to all but the participants, but the protesters hope to harness the anti-war movement for large demonstrations as close to Evian as they can get.

    On the eve of the summit, 50 fires will be lit on the nearby Lake Léman to create a "lake of fire". Anarchists are planning an "anti-capitalist, anti-war" village.
     
  2. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    Well, other countries are going to grasp at straws, I guess.

    We're consolidating our hold on the oil countries, using 9/11 as the excuse. Demonizing France ("freedom" fries? Jee-zus!) and Germany is just pretext to keep them on the outside looking in, having to come to us with their hats in their hands.

    I'll leave aside further rantings. That's just how it is now.
     
  3. underoverup

    underoverup Member

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    Rhetoric yes, but should this be the focus of the G8 meeting?
    With all the recent terrorist attacks this should be a major focus.

    They should also discuss the Rockets coaching vacancy. :)
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Who is demonizing France? They are doing it themselves.
     
  5. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
  6. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Thanks Cohen, I didn't want to have to do it myself. :D
     
  7. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Keep talking Chirac. Our government is pursuing a policy right now that is weakening the Dollar vs. the Euro, and France and Germany are on target for economic recession. When economic times turn bad, residing Prime Ministers tend to get recalled.

    Pay back is a b****, eh Jacques?
     
  8. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Yeah, this whole war with Iraq was their fault.
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Now wait a second...Iraq didn't just dissent...they were active dissenters. They not only said we disagreed...they lobbied against us, sending representatives out around the world (particularly in Africa) to talk about the big bad US. Not exactly what you would expect from an "ally." The Iraqi war is not their fault...but do you think they're blameless in the souring of their relationship with the United States?
     
  10. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    MM,

    I was responding to the "they are doing it to themselves" remark. The US pushed for the war, not France. Thus, the source of the friction is the US, not France.

    The US put the French Government in a difficult spot (70% of the French people were opposed to the war), bullied them, gave them no political cover (see Tony Blair), kept telling them they were irrelevant, and then acted surprised and hurt when we failed to coerce them. Go figure.

    WRT France's active dissention, is that really all that surprising? France is a country where kid gloves are needed in diplomacy. The US only gave a half *ssed effort in plying the French diplomatic waters. But the French should have realized that W has poor diplomatic skills and should have acquiesced???
     
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Who is France?

    Oh, and they are irrelevant, no problem reminding people who is in charge now and again.

    DD
     
  12. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    No Worries --

    I don't understand the concept of "the US pushed for the war, not France. Thus the source of the friction is the US, not France." Again...if it was just a dissension...just a disagreement...the relationship would not have soured to the point it has now. It became more than that. It became actively working against American policy. They have every right to do that, of course. But as an ally, I think we have every right to question that. The French made enemies out of more than just Bush, himself...they did so with Powell, as well.
     
  13. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    So Chirac shouldn't discuss environmental, development and economic issues because they might embarrass Bush? Wow.

    I guess the only thing Bush is able to discuss is his world-wide war that has threatened global destruction, devastated two sovereign countries, and killed tens of thousands of innocent people so that we could capture Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.

    Oh, wait, leave out that last part.
     
  14. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Yeah, they were so much better off under extremist totalitarian governments. And remember, the US was very successful limiting damage to the infrastructure. Tens of thousands of civilians didn't die either. So your facts are way off.

    The problem isn't that Chirac wants to talk about those issues, it's that he wants to embarrass Bush. You can talk about the issues without trying to embarrass the US.
     
    #14 Mr. Clutch, May 27, 2003
    Last edited: May 27, 2003
  15. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    A U.S-backed dictator is still a dictator. If things are so much better, why are there daily riots in Iraq and Afghanistan? Must be all that freedom.

    First, Chirac stands up for what he thinks is best for his country, and now he has the audacity to question Bush on pertinent issues like the economy and the environment? That is un-American!

    Maybe if he had a "freedom fry" or two, he wouldn't feel the need to make fun of anyone.
     
    #15 GreenVegan76, May 27, 2003
    Last edited: May 27, 2003
  16. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Agreed. Sanctions killed over a million citizens (half of which were children under the age of 5.) These are the UN's numbers.
     
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    You mean the UN sanctions? Those are our fault, right? Everything else is...just wondering where France's veto power was when it came to sanctions?
     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Daily riots in Iraq and Afghanistan? You need to listen to sources other than Pacifica, things are not that bad.

    Of course, Chirac should stand up for his country. But why constantly criticize and try to embarrass the US? Again, those are 2 separate things. You can't seem to separate them.
     
  19. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    It is well documented how Saddam abused the system and enriched himself.


    Under the sanctions regime, "We had the ability to get all the drugs we needed," said Ibn Al-Baladi's chief resident, Dr. Hussein Shihab. "Instead of that, Saddam Hussein spent all the money on his military force and put all the fault on the USA. Yes, of course the sanctions hurt - but not too much, because we are a rich country and we have the ability to get everything we can by money. But instead, he spent it on his palaces."
    ...

    http://www.newsday.com/news/nationw...3,0,6683623.story?coll=ny-worldnews-headlines
     
  20. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    Whether or not they're being reported by the giant media conglomerations with vested interests in the current government, there are daily riots in those countries. It's impossible to refute.

    I, too, hope Chirac is cordial and helps rebuild a frayed trust between France and America. France is an important economic and diplomatic ally. But there's no question both sides need to discuss issues other than a phantom war on terror. If those issues "embarrass" Bush, perhaps he should do something other than declare war.
     

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