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[Former Iraqi opposition figure] "Only Saddam Hussein can run Iraq"

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by tigermission1, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Only Saddam Hussein can run Iraq, says aide

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/16/wiraq116.xml

    A prominent figure in the Iraqi opposition movement that helped propel America and Britain to war in 2003 has said the country would be better off if Saddam Hussein was still in power.

    Lufti Saber, once a key lieutenant of the first post-Saddam Iraqi prime minister, Ayad Allawi, has a ringside seat on the new Baghdad regime as an aide to the American-led military coalition.

    But the political manoeuvring and administrative incompetence he has witnessed on a daily basis has led the former political prisoner to radically revise his views of the invasion of Iraq.

    "None of these people trust each other," he said. "Everything comes down to that. The whole system is set up to ensure that nobody does anything that somebody else thinks is wrong.

    "Saddam had a way of rising above that. As soon as he made a decision, it happened. People knew it had to be done. It didn't matter where they were in the country, they knew the floor at work had to be cleaned, just in case Saddam turned up. Now the country is engulfed in chaos and nobody does anything because they all refuse to take responsibility."

    Iraq marks the fifth anniversary of the US-led invasion this week, plagued by problems seen only in failed states.

    Many former supporters of the invasion share a bleak outlook on the country's future prospects, though polls show general population retains hopes for the future.

    Mr Saber spent eight years on death row during Saddam's dictatorship before he was release in an eve of battle amnesty.

    He had worked for Dr Allawi's Iraq National Accord, which in the mid-1990s was based in the Kurdish enclave in northern Iraq.

    Before his arrest, Mr Saber was instrumental in orchestrating a failed coup within the senior military ranks in 1996.

    "I never thought I would say it given that he sentenced me to death," he said. "But I find myself wishing Saddam was still here. Only he had the knack of running this god-forsaken country."

    Despite the failure of the putative putsch, Dr Allawi, a secular Shi'ite Muslim from a prominent Baghdad merchant family, emerged as a close ally of Western intelligence agencies, including MI6 and the CIA.

    After the invasion, he stood as one of a handful of potential leaders of a new government.

    But Washington installed an interim administration, the Coalition Provision Authority, which struggled to establish its authority.

    By the time Dr Allawi accepted a leather-bound portfolio certifying his appointment as interim prime minister in July 2004, a multi-pronged insurgency had already taken root.

    With Iraqi's splitting along confessional lines, there was no prospect of the kind of revitalised secular state he sought flourishing.

    Fundamentalist Shi'ite political parties triumphed in the 2005 elections and have held sway ever since.

    Baghdad, once a cluttered stew of religious and ethnic groups, emerged from the 2006 civil war as a predominately Shi'te city, pocketed with Sunni enclaves.

    When Saddam was executed in 2006, Shi'te politicians danced around his body. Mr Saber suffered in the sweep of violence across the city.

    "My home is in Ameriya district, which was mixed but is now exclusively Sunni," he said.

    "I've had to move to a flat which is an area that is protected. My family are in Syria. It is unbelievable to me that I am so close to not being able to live in my country."

    Credible surveys estimate that 4 million Iraqis have been displaced since 2003, half forced outside its borders.

    The numbers of killed will never be known but have been estimated as high as 650,000, equivalent to 2.5 per cent of the population.

    Iraqis rank the failure to provide electricity and basic services such as health care as a more grievous wrong than the absence of security.

    Despite billions of dollars of foreign aid, most parts of Baghdad get less than 6 hours of electricity a day from the national grid, and often as little as two.

    Mr Saber blames the predominance of former exiles in the post-Saddam government for the failure to create a functioning state.

    At least a dozen senior figures, including both former prime ministers, a deputy prime minister and the national security advisor, keep homes and families in London.

    Jalal Talabani, Iraq's president, remarked at a dinner with his top advisers for members of the British embassy that he was the only person present who did not have a UK passport.


    * and people wonder why corruption is rampant with little interest in doing anything worthwhile for Iraq. Their homes are in London, not Baghdad. They're in Iraq to fleece the country before 'retiring' to the West with handsome bank accounts.

    After a split with Dr Allawi, Mr Saber left Iraqi politics. He now works for the American and British officers responsible for training the Iraqi army.

    As such his job puts him in daily contact with both Iraqis and their American advisors.

    Despite the presence of 140,000 American, and 4,000 British troops, in Iraq, he believes the loyalties of most government officials lie with the regimes in the Middle East most hostile to the emergence of a democratic state.

    "We have the Americans and British here in great numbers and I can see Iraq has failed to take advantage," he said.

    "When I ask why I conclude the officials just want to benefit themselves by resting on the support of Iran or Turkey. It's a tragedy."
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

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    I bet this thought has crossed many people's minds by now...
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Yep, he ruled with an iron fist, and it seems with all those factions, that is the easiest way to rule.

    Hopefully they will rally on getting the USA out of Iraq...and run their own country.

    DD
     
  4. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Considering the balance of power in Iraq's immediate vicinity and it's own fragmented population, you could argue that a secular, authoritarian, anti-Iran, anti-Al Qaida Sunni is what Iraq needs to be a viable country. This describes Saddam.
     
  5. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
     
  6. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Why do you hate America? Why do you want us to fail in Iraq?




















    ;)



    Im[peach] Bush.
     
  7. danny317

    danny317 Member

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    sad sad sad...
     
  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    we're spreading democracy, you guys just don't have the stomach for this
     
  9. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Well stitch his fugging head back on and send him back out there. If you think Saddam was good, Zombie Saddam will be great!
     
  10. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Ordinary people, yes, not a former political prisoner of Saddam's who was put on death row.

    This guy's 'testimony' is disturbing, but it also provides some insight into the people involved in trying to rebuild Iraq, a good chunk of whom -- it seems -- are 'self-interested' instead of the 'patriotic', founding father types some have come to view them as.
     
  11. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    The lesson that I hope America learns from this mess is that you cannot conflate freedom and democracy. Since he had successfully supressed all dissent, Saddam had given Iraq more freedom than it has now. It doesn't match the American value system at all, but it cannot be ignored.
     
  12. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    The message is that the human animal is evolutionarily predisposed to self interest. It is the perception of where their self interest lies that dictates their alliances.

    If tyranny affords prosperity then they will align with tyranny.

    If tyranny becomes abusive to the people and appears to be defeatable they will ally with the common cause.

    If chaos is the greater threat, they will ally with tyranny again.

    In retrospect our rosy picture of the new Iraq just didn't extend the logic far enough. It wasn't insane to think that the people within the borders would be glad to be rid of their despot and accept the aid of the US in guiding them to prosperity. We just didn't see that the conflict between Sunni and Shia for control of their well being as separate groups would be the overiding issue.

    It will be a high risk experiment to see if pulling out of Iraq and the threat of civil war returns cooperation between the parties to the greater good; but I don't see what the other option is. Staying there indefinitely only affords the parties the opportunity to snipe at one another.

    Shoula woulda coulda, we should have maintained the the existing civil system and used these 5 years to forcefully integrate the Shia into it. Essentially we should have replace Saddam as the tyrant and increased our benevolence.

    One last thing, I think Iraq before the war was a shambled infrastructure, there just wasn't any free flow of information about it. I don't think we destroyed every power line, water line, sewage treatment plant, refinery or pipeline and every school in the country. It was the bloody third world before we got there and it will always be the bloody third world.
     
  13. Jeffster

    Jeffster Member

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    Only Hitler can run Germany.
     
  14. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Gemany almost conquered the entire world. So did japan. Iraq couldn't conquer itself. There is a big difference between those countries. We just needed to show japan and germany the right way. Iraq can't do anything right.
     
  15. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    As we all know, Germany is perfectly analogues to Iraq...
     
  16. WNBA

    WNBA Member

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    USA (who sell democracy for gas using bombs) to Iraq today
    is

    Japan (who tried to save China from western by killing Chinese) to China 70 years ago

    or British (who made Chinese market open for their opium by warships) to China 160 years ago.
     
  17. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Wanting the American occupiers out is one of the few things that can potentially unify the Iraqis.
     
  18. glynch

    glynch Member

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    It is frustrating to think that we spent --we are borrowing-- $3 trillion dollars just to have created this mess in Iraq. Sure could use the money now to help with our financial crisis.
     
    #18 glynch, Mar 19, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2008
  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    We sure could use some Iraqi oil right now....
     
  20. Ehsan

    Ehsan Member

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    ..and it only cost 650,000 lives and $3 trillion!
     

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