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Former Astros Tracking Thread

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by torque, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Wrong thread - but whatever........ guess the player....

    Never won a Cy Young award but has nearly 100 career WAR.

    Finished his career with 6 Gold Gloves - over 3,300 strikeouts.

    He ended up only pitching in 2 post season games in his career.

    Just shy of his 40th birthday - he knocked out a 10 WAR season.
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Niekro? (not the one with the Astros).
     
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  3. phasors28

    phasors28 Member

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    Byrt Blyleven would be my guess
     
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  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Good guess...... he has about 80 WAR if I can remember right.

    It is Joe Niekro's older brother Phil - who was not a regular until he was like 25-26 years old.
     
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  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Bingo!

    Probably the most under-rated pitcher over the last 50 years ..... there are some other ones that are really under-rated as well, but Niekro is at the top.

    95 WAR after age 25 is amazing.
     
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  6. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    But isn't it just all about the knuckle ball?

    Granted, we only know the true greats who mastered that pitch... but I also can't imagine there were a lot of others throwing it concurrently, so teams never really got that repeated exposure.

    And we know that knuckleballers can pitch till they're 75 and they do peak or get full mastery at a later age as is (or in some cases pitchers pivot to it when arm trouble or ineffectiveness forces them to try something else).

    Somebody smarter than me will have to explain why there are so few people throwing them now... in light of all the arm injuries, pitch clocks, inning restrictions, etc.... and here's a potential avenue/pitch that could eliminate a lot of what ails the modern day pitching.

    Then again, bad ones get crushed.
     
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  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Phil Niekro was special - he threw more than just the knuckleball. He also threw a very effective screwball, he often set hitters up with a cut fastball and had an above average curveball.

    His knuckleball was special in part because he had exceptional control of it most of his career. He did not walk a lot of hitters and simply did not get tired on the mound.

    His success wasn't that it was a gimmick or not seen often. He pitched for the Braves for 20 seasons, and he holds the modern record for innings pitched at almost 5,500. He also pitched well over 300 innings a season in his prime. There were other knucklballers in baseball at that time.


    Why don't pitchers throw the knuckleball now? It is REALLY REALLY hard to master, and the game is very different now. The emphasis has been to get 5-6 innings of 2 run baseball out of your starters. A good knuckleballer would give you 8-9 innings ot 3-4 run baseball. I do think we will see some pushback and return to free and easier throwing because of the injuries.
     
  8. Radricky

    Radricky Member

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  9. Radricky

    Radricky Member

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    This moment when marwin was just standing there and the ump had his hand on his back will live forever in my mind.
     
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  10. SuraGotMadHops

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    I was at this game, that slam was when I felt like the Astros time was finally arriving after almost ten years of suckage. I also remember Carlos Gomez was on the Rangers at that time and ended the game on a strikeout, to my delight.
     
  11. Radricky

    Radricky Member

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    The angels got their new lead off hitter
     
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  12. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard
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    Teoscar Hernandez... 1.6 WAR with .822 OPS and 10 HRs... outperforming Yordan thus far...
     
  13. Buck Turgidson

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    Wow. This is earthshattering news!

    How many WS do the Stros win with Teo instead of Yordan?
     
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  14. raining threes

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    Kevin Bacon type stuff
     
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  15. Castian Crew

    Castian Crew Member

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    Maldonado with a robust .106 BA through 24 games. Incidentally Korey Lee has spelled him to hit .284 with 4 HRs in 27 games.
     
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  16. vince

    vince Member

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    I think Korey Lee and Yainer Diaz will be closely monitored by Astros fans for years to come.

    The Astros made a bet that Yainer Diaz will be the better player, but Korey Lee was a first round pick because he showed the Astros something special.

    Ultimately, time will tell which is the best player. Both have been doing very well this season.
     
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  17. Qan

    Qan Member

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    I've completely forgotten about Lee until I click on this thread.
     
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  18. vince

    vince Member

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    I still am feeling confident that Diaz will be the overall better catcher, both defensively and offensively.

    But I think Korey Lee has the talent to have himself a very good career at the very least.
     
  19. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    If Graveman pitched (well) in the postseason and throughout 2024 we would not be talking about how bad of a trade that turned out.

    Graveman was NEEDED. This team had a fatigued pitching staff during a playoff run and going to lose 3 major bullpen contributors in the offseason.

    I think the trade was a good one that just didn't work out. It happens.
     
  20. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    Isnt a trade that doesn't work out a bad trade?
     

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