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Forget the Stock Market, Mutual Funds, etc - Invest in This!

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Manny Ramirez, Jul 24, 2003.

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  1. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    That investment is comic books, or certain ones. Now I know there are some comic fans here like Batman Jones, Antisonic, CriscoKidd, BobFinn*, but being bored at work today, I did some number crunching.

    I have 2 Wizard comic book magazines:

    January 1995 - issue #41 and August 2003 - issue #143

    Now I know that Overstreet is the official one and some people use comicpriceguide.com (?) but Wizard is pretty accessible and cheap to buy.

    Here was the prices in Issue #41 (all in Near Mint) of these select issues:

    Incredible Hulk 181 - 325
    Giant Size X-Men 1 - 275
    X-Men 94 - 265
    X-Men 1 - 3600
    Daredevil 1 - 1300
    Daredevil 168 (1st Elektra) - 40
    Daredevil 181 (death of Elektra) - 12
    Journey Into Mystery 83 (1st Thor) - 3000
    Fantastic Four 1 - 12800
    Amazing Fantasy 15 (1st Spidey) - 19000
    Amazing Spider-Man 1 - 13750
    Incredible Hulk 1 - 7000

    Sorry, that there are no DC titles here but I restricted it to Marvel and Silver Age to Bronze Age books only (although the 2 Elektra books might be Modern Age).

    Now here are the prices, near mint, of those books today according to issue 143 of Wizard

    Incredible Hulk 181 - 1250
    Giant Size X-Men 1 - 1000
    X-Men 94 - 1000
    X-Men 1 - 10500
    Daredevil 1 - 2750
    Daredevil 168 (1st Elektra) - 125
    Daredevil 181 (death of Elektra) - 75
    Journey Into Mystery 83 (1st Thor) - 6000
    Fantastic Four 1 - 26000
    Amazing Fantasy 15 (1st Spidey) - 39000
    Amazing Spider-Man 1 - 33000
    Incredible Hulk 1 - 18000

    Using a formula from "elementary":p finance class for future value and present value, i.e. FV=PV(1+i)^t, where PV is the book's value in '95, FV is the book's value now, t is 8 years (actually should be more than 8 but less than 9 but I used 8 for simplicity reasons) and i is unknown, yields these rates of return for these books:

    Incredible Hulk 181 - 18.34%
    Giant Size X-Men 1 - 17.51%
    X-Men 94 - 18.06%
    X-Men 1 - 14.32%
    Daredevil 1 - 9.82%
    Daredevil 168 (1st Elektra) - 15.31%
    Daredevil 181 (death of Elektra) - 25.74%
    Journey Into Mystery 83 (1st Thor) - 9.05%
    Fantastic Four 1 - 9.26%
    Amazing Fantasy 15 (1st Spidey) - 9.41%
    Amazing Spider-Man 1 - 11.56%
    Incredible Hulk 1 - 12.53%

    Now, if we project out 8 years into the future, assuming that the rate of returns for these books stay the same as they are now, the results are as follows:

    Incredible Hulk 181 - 4808
    Giant Size X-Men 1 - 3636
    X-Men 94 - 3774
    X-Men 1 - 30625
    Daredevil 1 - 5817
    Daredevil 168 (1st Elektra) - 391
    Daredevil 181 (death of Elektra) - 469
    Journey Into Mystery 83 (1st Thor) - 12000
    Fantastic Four 1 - 52813
    Amazing Fantasy 15 (1st Spidey) - 80053
    Amazing Spider-Man 1 - 79200
    Incredible Hulk 1 - 46286

    And then another 8 years to 2019 using the same assumptions:

    Incredible Hulk 181 - 18492
    Giant Size X-Men 1 - 13222
    X-Men 94 - 14242
    X-Men 1 - 89323
    Daredevil 1 - 12305
    Daredevil 168 (1st Elektra) - 1222
    Daredevil 181 (death of Elektra) - 2931
    Journey Into Mystery 83 (1st Thor) - 24000
    Fantastic Four 1 - 107276
    Amazing Fantasy 15 (1st Spidey) - 164319
    Amazing Spider-Man 1 - 190080
    Incredible Hulk 1 - 119021

    Now, I know that assuming these returns will stay the same for over 16 years is wishful thinking, but the bottom line is that comic books, at least the important issues, only go up in value over time compared to other investment options. 1st Superman in Action Comics #1 is 450,000 in near mint condition (I think) but then again is a book that is over 60 years old and I don't know if any near mint copies of that book exist today. 1st Batman in Detective Comics #27 is like 170,000 in near mint condition but is also nonexistent to find in near mint.

    Anyway, it is true that I have no life and I am bored, but seriously, investing in comics, at least certain ones, is nothing to dismiss. The trick is picking out the issues that you think will really rise in value and with all these movies coming out, now is the time to buy them cheap (like the Daredevils with Elektra in them).
     
    #1 Manny Ramirez, Jul 24, 2003
  2. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    You make a good point, but speculators nearly destroyed the industry in the early-mid 90's. Try not to start another brush fire. ;)
     
    #2 AntiSonic, Jul 24, 2003
  3. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    Quick recap: http://comicbooks.about.com/library/weekly/aa121402a.htm

    Sound advice on the Silver Age and older books, too bad they're out of the average guys price range. :(
     
    #3 AntiSonic, Jul 24, 2003
  4. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    Also, Manny don't know if you keep up with it or anything but Marvel's Ultimate line has skyrocketed. Check out early issues of Ultimate Spidey to see. They've only been out for two years or so and are allready hovering in the $10-$50 range.

    I don't know if their hotness will last, but they're still affordable. I'm kicking myself for not getting multiple copies at cover price. :mad:
     
    #4 AntiSonic, Jul 24, 2003
  5. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    Out of curiosity, what do the McFarlane drawn Amazing Spider Man and Incredible Hulk go for now?
     
    #5 subtomic, Jul 24, 2003
  6. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    What made you pick those selected titles? Are those the ones with the besat rate of return? The reason I ask is that selected stocks would blow those away. Imagine getting Microsoft 10 years ago, or Cisco as an IPO. I don't think collectables should be used as a way to make money. Buy comics because you lioke comics, baseball cards to commemorate your favorite players, stamps and coins, well there is no reason to collect stamps and coins :p but you see what I am getting at here.
     
    #6 StupidMoniker, Jul 24, 2003
  7. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    Most of 'em are going around the $8-$15 range with deviations like Venom's first appearences and the Hulk/Wolverine fight fetching $80 and $37 respectively. Prices are from a three month old Wizard so don't quote me on it. ;)

    I'm a huge McFarlane fan and sadly can't find much of his Hulk stuff. :(
     
    #7 AntiSonic, Jul 24, 2003
  8. OmegaSupreme

    OmegaSupreme Member

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    hmmmm...

    right now, i think that amazing spiderman #300 and amazing spiderman #361 would both be good buys.

    is it a safe bet to make assuming that one or both will be in spiderman 3? :confused:

    edit: anti beat me to venom's first.
     
    #8 OmegaSupreme, Jul 24, 2003
  9. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    Those two books took a huge hit in value a few years ago. ASM 300 got as low as $37, IIRC. When the Spider-Man movie came out, pretty much all of the stuff went up with the renewed interest and 300's back up to $80 now. So it looks like they don't even have to be in the film to get market karma. :)

    And 361 is cheap right now ($7). Might be a good pick up 'cause you never know when a character's going to come out of limbo, or as you mentioned, get a movie deal. ;)
     
    #9 AntiSonic, Jul 24, 2003
  10. rezdawg

    rezdawg Member

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    Can someone give me a current price check for:

    Wolverine #1
    Spectacular Spider-Man #1
    Web of Spider-Man #1

    Issue 16 of the Wizard has them listed as:

    Wolverine #1 = $27
    Spectacular = $50
    Web = $17

    Those are basically my only 3 comics and I have a gut feeling that the prices havent changed at all.
     
    #10 rezdawg, Jul 24, 2003
  11. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    XLA (formerly SCF) : $3000 invested in February 1999 was worth over $1,700,000 in March 2000. Of course it'd be worth squat now... but how's that for some return?! :D

    Go buy yourself some comics with that... ;)

    ... and no, I didn't own it from February 1999 to March 2000... :(
     
    #11 Dr of Dunk, Jul 24, 2003
  12. AntiSonic

    AntiSonic Member

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    But old comics aren't anywhere near as risky. That stock could've just as easily plummeted. Silver Age stuff is pretty much guaranteed money.
     
    #12 AntiSonic, Jul 24, 2003
  13. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    How many people do you know that retired on their comic book collections?

    I'm willing to bet that Cisco, Microsoft, and IBM alone have retired more. :)

    That being said, I have over 2000 comics in my collection that I haven't added to since the early 90's. It's about time to re-bag those puppies. Thanks for the reminder thread!
     
    #13 Dr of Dunk, Jul 24, 2003
  14. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    According to Wizard #143:

    Wolverine #1 (mini-series written by Claremont and drawn by Frank Miller) is 60 in near-mint while Wolvie #1 (of the on-going series) is 45

    Spectacular #1 is 50 bucks, lol.

    Web #1 is 20 bucks.

    Anti,

    Thanks for the read. I remembered when baseball cards were real hot, then the market got overflooded with all kinds of companies like Score, Upper Deck, etc to go along with Topps, Fleer, and Donruss. I know for a long time that a lot of cards that were valuable at one time like a Boggs rookie or Clemens rookie or Mattingly rookie went down in value. I have no idea if that is the case now.

    There is a danger that with all these comic movies coming out, that the same thing will happen to comics that happened to baseball cards, but X-Men and Spider-Man have ALWAYS been hot titles even before their movies came out. I have a feeling that if the movie is good then the books will become hot like Daredevil; if the movie sucks like the Captain America movie, then the books won't be hot.
     
    #14 Manny Ramirez, Jul 24, 2003
  15. rezdawg

    rezdawg Member

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    LOL. This is just fantastic. Thanks for the work Manny.
     
    #15 rezdawg, Jul 25, 2003
  16. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    The only comic books I ever kept were Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers comics.
     
    #16 RocketMan Tex, Jul 25, 2003
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