Forget Mo's Money, sign Dream

Well grab a bottle and pull out the pedialyte my friend cause you gonna need it. Dreams agent is asking for money that we dont have. Hakeem has been, and may always be one of the the truest rockets.

Only problem is, he is the only person that doesnt realize how much his game has dropped. That is why he demands so much. The rockets, out of respect to its current team, and to some extent the fans, cannot afford to spend unappropriate money on goods that can not return production to justify that money.

If DRob can settle for less money for the good of the team, Why cant Hakeem?

Other players have made financial sacrifices for our team, including the ridiculously low amount that Barkley was playing for here. Cause CB4 was about winning. Whether all his actions showed that is debateable, but Charles financially wanted to help the rockets.

If Hakeem wont settle for a salary that is only marginally higher then his value, there is no justification for keeping him around

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President of MY fan club.

[This message has been edited by Silk (edited June 30, 2001).]

 

I would let Mo go if it meant keeping Hakeem for two more years, but I would like to have Mo back. Hakeem deserves at least 6 million. In the second half of the season, he was averaging 15 points and 11 boards. Yeah, those are horrible numbers.

Besides, the Rockets need a veteran! They can't go out there with all this youth and expect to be that good, they need more tutoring from a vet like the Dream.

I know what you mean Double Ball Fake. I am astounded and sickened with the way most on this board think of Hakeem. After all he has given the Rockets, they expect him to take less money than an 8-6 producing Cato. Barkley may have taken less than Hakeem in the lockout year, but he never gave the Rockets ANYTHING! Hakeem delivered two titles! That is two more titles than almost ALL other teams in the league. Say what you want about the salary cap, but there is still a thing called loyalty. Hakeem owes the Rockets nothing, the Rockets owe him EVERYTHING. Pay him what he deserves.

The Rockets broke up their championship team to get Barkley, and they gained nothing. There is no way he deserved to make nine million in his final year while Hakeem only deserves to make one. That is ridiculous.

If this slows down the Rockets' rebuilding by a few years, then it's too bad. I'd be willing to watch the ping pong balls for two more years if it meant getting two more years of Hakeem. And that likely wouldn't be the case, because having Hakeem on this team would be better than having 99 percent of the "center" in the league.

Besides Shaq and Alonzo, find me a true center that is better than the Dream. Robinson? Hardly, that soft worm gets to play next to Tim Duncan all year. Divac? That's a joke. Marc Jackson? He barely qualifies as a center, and lacks toughness and rebounding.

Re-signing Hakeem is the best basketball decision the Rockets could make. It is also the best fan-relations decision the Rockets could make.

I hate to break this to all of you, but the vast majority of Rockets fans do not post on this board. They don't know anything about the salary cap, or those five year rebuilding plans. I doubt they know much about these current Rockets. No, what they know is Hakeem. Hakeem IS the Rockets. He can not enter the Compaq Center wearing any other uniform, it just wouldn't be right!

The Rockets must re-sign Hakeem the Dream Olajuwon. I really like Mo, but if we have to lose him to get two more years of the Dream, I am all for it. I like watching the greatest Rocket in history play, I don't want to see him leave until he wants to, and I don't want to see him running down the court with Kobe in Laker purple and gold. That can't happen.

All you Hakeem-haters should be ashamed of yourselves, and you don't deserve to be considered Rocket fans.



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Protrolls.com!

"I want to be like Olajon." -Sagana Diop has the right idea...

 

I know what you mean Double Ball Fake. I am astounded and sickened with the way most on this board think of Hakeem. After all he has given the Rockets, they expect him to take less money than an 8-6 producing Cato. Barkley may have taken less than Hakeem in the lockout year, but he never gave the Rockets ANYTHING! Hakeem delivered two titles! That is two more titles than almost ALL other teams in the league. Say what you want about the salary cap, but there is still a thing called loyalty. Hakeem owes the Rockets nothing, the Rockets owe him EVERYTHING. Pay him what he deserves.

The Rockets broke up their championship team to get Barkley, and they gained nothing. There is no way he deserved to make nine million in his final year while Hakeem only deserves to make one. That is ridiculous.

Let me first start off by saying I love everything Dream has done for us. Whenever people think of the Houston Rockets, they will think of Hakeem Olajuwon. He won us two titles, and conducted himself with class all the way. But, you don't think 16 million for 5 years in a row is paying him enough? The Rockets have treated him with respect, they have still incorporated them as one of the featured aspects of this team even through the rebuilding phase, and he is the 5th highest paid player in the league. What more can they do?

Resigning Hakeem is something that would be very beneficial to this team over the next year or two, and it could help us get deep in the playoffs. But it is not worth mortgaging our future to do so. Dream is not worth the price he is seeking right now, and while I would probably cry if I saw him in another uniform, you have to move on. Dream is a good player, but not a great player, and you can only count on him to be healthy 70% of the season. Fans wouldn't like it. The media wouldn't like it. But when it comes down to it, it is about winning basketball games, and making basketball related decisions, not fan related decisions.

Mo did a lot of nice things for us this year, and his fit in team chemistry and in the future of this team is very important, as quotes from Rudy and the players suggest. And even if you don't like Mo, there are other players we can go after that also would fit in well for the future of this team. Marc Jackson can bang inside, and he averaged near 10 rebounds per game as a starter. He can also grow with the core of this team.

Also, to make one other thing clear: the Rockets didn't break up a championship team to get Barkley. The broke up a team who had been utterly demolished and annihilated by Seattle. Teams were figuring out the Rockets, and their offense. We had to make a change, and Chuck gave it all he had. Unforunately, it wasn't enough, but you can't fault the front office at all for making the move for Chuck.

Believe me ZRB, I'm no Hakeem hater. I love the guy, and I'd love to have him back next year. But we are entering a very key stage for this young Rockets team. Just as last year the Mavericks took the leap from above average team to near contender status, this year should do that for the Rockets. However, to be able to do that and then move on to the next year/level and be a contender, we need at least one young big man this year who can grow with the core of Francis, Mobley, and Griffin. Hakeem would be a great influence for the younger guys, he would be better than all but about 3 centers in the league (when he's healthy), and he might could help us win a couple of playoff series next year. However, all of those accomplishments would not come unless we sign Hakeem and someone else. If Hakeem is our only reliable big man, we may be without one for half a season and miss the playoffs. I would be as depressed as anyone to see the Dream go. He still has some basketball left in him. But, one player cannot go above the team no matter who he is, and with the upcoming year very important to our future, it isn't worth the risk of harming the development of our young team to sign him to a big deal and losing out on Mo Taylor, Marc Jackson, Nazr Mohammed, and others.

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EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!!

Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more!

The Mo Taylor Fan Site

[This message has been edited by The Cat (edited June 30, 2001).]

 

Alonzo is NOT a true center.
But lets see....

Mutumbo
Theo Ratliff

... Hakeem is still the man.
... Hakeem can still show flashes of his former self
... but he does just that. that IS his former self.

****

Yes hakeem is a rocket icon and that is important i just dont think he is worth over five, and early indications show he wants closer to 9.

... but as for him being an icon for "the warm weather" rockets. the guys that think clyde and hakeem are still the rockets phi slamma jamma, to hell with them. if they dont wanna go through the highs and lows of a team they dont deserve any special consideration over those of us that are with them through the thick and the thin.

... man had more to say but thatll have to wait... the new wifey is feeling a little permiscous (sp?) and Silk needs to tend to his skills. well continue this lil convo soon.

Out...


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President of MY fan club.

 

Damn, I left out Mutombo and Ratliff (sorry, I was drunk ) but after them, no one is even close.

I WANT to get deep into the playoffs the next two years. I don't see how that could be anything but positive. The Rockets need to learn how to win in the playoffs, and with Hakeem on the team, the chances of that happening would be much better. I don't think he should get 10 million this year either, but saying he only deserves the minimum is just wrong. 6 million seems fair.

Hakeem did not earn 16 million in each of the last five years, that was only this season. Just pointing that out.

One more thing- advancing deep into the playoffs makes a team far more likely to add free agents than 1st round teams or lottery teams. Advancing deep into the playoffs does nothing but good, and if Hakeem could help the Rockets do that, they must sign him.

"but as for him being an icon for "the warm weather" rockets. the guys that think clyde and hakeem are still the rockets phi slamma jamma, to hell with them."

If those fans are not satisfied, then the team will make no money. What are there, 2000 members of this board? That's not enough to fill even a quarter of Compaq Center. Without those fans, there is no team. They must be considered.

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Protrolls.com!

"I want to be like Olajon." -Sagana Diop has the right idea...

[This message has been edited by ZRB (edited July 01, 2001).]

 

zrb, sorry to disagree but i do believe he made 16 mil the last 5 yrs, remember when we gave him his reward contract to finish out his outstanding career as a rocket and icon of the city of houston

as for resigning him im all for it if it means we can retain mo as well or if possible get webber, sorry but while im a huge dream fan and i even worked on practicing his dreamshake we are a young team now and a we will need a player like maurice taylor or webber a lot more than the dream in a future, dont get me wrong i want dream back but at a price which gives us cap flexibility and is sufficient for him, if he does play in a different uni over money i will be saddened but i understand its the nature of the game and the rockets did what was truly best for the future of the organization and the fans

ps-i do think u have to factor in injury concerns with the dream as well when deciding on a salary which works for both parties involved



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How Sweet It Is! How Sweet It Is!
Gene Peterson on the rockets winning the 1995 championship over the Orlando Magic

 

The only person that is going to stop Dream from resigning with the Rockets is Dream. You know the Rockets organization wants to resign him, for all the reasons you gave, ZRB (championships, icon, etc). But Dream said not too long ago that he thinks the best thing for this team is to resign all its players from last season. Does he not realize that to do this, he would have to accept a contract of less than $10 million? Do you really think that Dream getting us 15 and 11 for 30 games out of 82 is worth $10 million? I don't. I am a Rockets fan first, and a Hakeem Olajuwon fan second. Him asking for that much money hurts the Rockets rebuilding plan, and to me that is not loyalty since most of the league would not pay him that much for what he will give.

I would love to see Dream back next season, but if he continues to make outrageous contract requests, he will not be resigned. If Dream is not resigned in this instance, it is not the Rockets fault, it is Dream's. He has every opportunity to play here, and if he doesn't, it is because he wanted to go elsewhere.

And concerning Mo, he may be a poor rebounder, but he will give us more net production in the next 3-4 years than Dream and his fading skills will. Mo has his drawbacks, but he has his positives as well.

And regarding the championship thing, I don't buy into the "this team owes Dream" argument. Hakeem was paid and paid well for his services in bringing two championships to Houston. People like to bring that up as if Dream truly gave of himself completely to acquire those championships, but didn't enjoy them himself. Hakeem enjoyed getting those 2 rings as much as anyone else in the organization, and he got paid millions of dollars to do it in the process. In short, Dream did his job. Sure, Houstonians love him for it, as well they should, but the Rocket's organization owes him nothing.

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I would rather have Mo Taylor and his love of the Rockets than Webber and his love of our money.

 

It's pretty clear to me that dream is just taking advantage of the cap room to get himself more money. What if we flat out refuse to pay him 10 million? Will he just move on to another team that is willing to pay that much? Oh yeah, there are no teams willing to pay that much for him. I think once dream explores his options, and realizes no one will pay him 10 million, he will request a reasonable amount of money from the rockets. At least, thats what i hope happens.

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Hakeem, Hasaw, Haconquered.

 

How about some reciprocity? You claim that the Rockets should be loyal to Dream. Doesn't it work both ways? If Hakeem insists on a 12 million dollar deal... well, he's being disingenuos and is attempting to take advantage of sentiment. He's worth 5-6 million - probably about the same as Mo, IMO. He's better when he's healthy... but he's healthy less. Let's not romanticize the guy -he's a businessman, and hiring Satan (Fegan) just proved it.

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Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.

 

Great post ZRB.

I agree completely. The #1 offseason priority should be getting Hakeem signed for $5-6 Million. They have to convince him to come off this alleged $10 million a year deal, then try to keep Taylor, Moochie, and maybe Shandon Anderson.

Hakeem was underpaid in his prime from 91-95. The last few years have made up for it somewhat, but the bottomline is that Hakeem is the best Rocket ever and always will be. He deserves a very fair offer from Houston (but not $10 MIL a year).

In fact, I think Hakeem helps our team next year moreso than Maurice Taylor does, even as a 38 year old.

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Get Cato out of there...

 

If you look at everyones post, including mine which zrb was refuting, thats what everyone is saying. The original post intended that we should give up on other free agents and just pay hakeem.

Zrbs first post said he would rather pay hakeem what he wants then to let him walk.

I dont think our resident troll originally realized that hakeem wanted 10 million. so far most of the posts here agree that hakeem IS worth 5 - 6 million ... but if he still wants more i say he can walk.

Oh and another point i wanted to make before the wifey seductively interupted last night...

It is not Chuck's fault we "broke up a championship team" to bring him here. He did not ask to send the farm to Pheonix. RT and CD felt he was worth that. Dont hold him responsible for it.

The point i made was that when the team needed him, he accepted 1 million for a season so that Quitten could come here.
... but then again i suppose some of us will blame him for allowing pippen to come here because if it wasnt for him accepting a low pay it would be hard for us to afford him.



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President of MY fan club.

 

Just a couple things i didnt want you to think i overlooked...

Thats very true. But RT has already decided the offense is going to go through Steve. as long as it is, that makes hakeem a role player.... not someone who will carry this team on his back to the playoffs. If we spend our cap on him...

to the extent that we cant sign quality people around him. well have a gaping whole at the PF spot. Even in his healthy games, hakeem has shown he cant handle the rebounding load alone for us.

They will come because the team is winning. If hakeem was all that they needed to fill the seats, they would have known the rockets are a new team now. They dont care about hakeem they care about sticking with a winner. WE DONT CATER TO THEM, WE CATER TO THE TEAM.

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President of MY fan club.

 

Have you been a member of this board long enough to refer to zrb as a troll?

BTW how can you say Zo is not a true center and then call Theo a true center?
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[This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited July 01, 2001).]

 

One site ... Protrolls.com

Theres an argument for most anyone when you talk about true centers. there are like a hand full of true centers that are good enough to start at their position. while having true centers playing bench minutes

at some point you have to say the center position has evolved now, and that has a lot to do with kareem and hakeem bringing a different dimension to the center position which allows untrue centers to be able to play that position as well.

I assumed that when he mentioned ZO, he meant centers that could assist the rockets. therefore i mentioned those names.

BTW... do you judge posts by content or by post #?
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President of MY fan club.

[This message has been edited by Silk (edited July 01, 2001).]

 

OK so answer my question, Why do you think of Theo a true center and not Zo? We all have oppinions and I'm curious of yours.

I'll go ahead and lay may oppinion on the table:
At 6'10" 261lbs Zo is a lot closer to being a true center than Theo who is 6'10" 225lbs.
Zo is one of the more physical centers in the leage where as Ratliff is not all that physical. They are both exellent shot blockers though. Zo could easily exist in the west with his size and strength. Ratliff could not hold up an entire season against the much bigger and physical low post players in the west.

As far as how I judge peoples posts...to be honest I am not a very good judge. I am just someone with an opinion.

And I am curious if you have any idea why zrb has the protrolls.com or how it got started? I just think if you are going to refer to him as our resident troll you should know. Not trying to bash you.

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... one thing is agreed we both dont think ZO is a true center

and like i said in my previous post, when he said ZO i assumed he didnt want to have a have the standard of true center that he had already mentioned. so i opened options to including theo.

i already gave you my reasons of why i still however feel he is what the center is evolving to be become in the nba today. he is a defensive presence in the center and demands attention with the ball on the fast break. the offense instituded in Philly.

and im assuming also in ATL although due to the fact that they suck... i havent watched any of their games.

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President of MY fan club.

 

oh and i apologize to the governing bodies of this board for calling ZRB a troll.

... it will never happen again.

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President of MY fan club.

 

The only way I would give Hakeem 10 million if you could paid he on a per game basis.

82 games divided by 10 million= 121k per game

Let see if he can be healthy for most of all 82 games.

This is something that he could give back to the city.

We both win, if he plays all the games he wins his 10 million, if he does not we do not lose that bad.

This seem fair to me.

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"Instinctly u recognize things,now take advantage of what u just recognized!".. Hakeem..

 

Actually I do think Zo is a true center. I believe that he and his Georgetown teammate Deke are the only true centers in the east. I am assuming you think of Zo as more of a PF.

I actually agree with your assesment on the evelution of centers though. Back in the day a center played in the low post with his back to the basket. PF's were asked to step away from the basket a little more and sometimes put the ball on the floor. Remember when the Rockets drafted Dream? They moved Ralph to power forward because he had the skills to step away from the basket and put the ball on the floor. Hakeem was not considered skilled enough to even dribble back then much less but the ball on the floor against NBA tallent.

Largly because of the way Olajuwan played in the mid 90's centers are asked to do a lot more offensively IMO. Another reason is that outside of Shaq, centers are not as physically dominant over the rest of the court like they use to be. The ones like KandiMan in LA that have the size just do not have the skills.

Todays NBA seems to be looking for a more versital player like Ratliff or our own Kenny Thomas that can move between the 3, 4 and 5 spots. I think Eddie Griffin will be the perfect player to fill that roll on our team.

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