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For argument sake: Would you trade francis for kidd?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by dragon167, Feb 28, 2003.

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  1. dragon167

    dragon167 Member

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    http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/dalessandro/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/104633101311200.xml

    D'Alessandro: Here's the rub for Scott: Friction with Kidd is trouble

    Thursday, February 27, 2003

    BY DAVE D'ALESSANDRO
    Star-Ledger Staff

    We don't profess to know what has been ailing the Nets lately, but we know where to go to get some opinions. And here is the grim reality, as characterized by some people who are the most worried about the current circumstances:

    The problems around here are worse than you think. They may even be worse than Byron Scott thinks, and worse than Jason Kidd is willing to admit.

    For the first time since last season's joy ride to the NBA Finals, there are concerns that the coach and the star aren't getting along like they used to. You can see the signs from afar, for those alert to nuance. It didn't begin with those remarks Scott made about Kidd a week ago after the Miami game ("I didn't think the game was very interesting to him") and it probably won't end with the 105-76 drubbing over the Knicks last night.

    It wasn't addressed specifically in subsequent remarks from Kidd ("Guys enjoy structure") and it won't be addressed by them in public at all, because both are too professional to share their disagreements with the media.

    But this much is readily apparent, at least to those who know both men well, and know how hard it is to maintain the chemistry they've had around here since Kidd's arrival 17 months ago: Their relationship is being tested now, with the Nets struggling more than ever before on Kidd's watch, and nobody can be certain about how this is going to play out.

    Maybe you've spotted the signs yourself. We've lost count of the number of times Kidd has glanced over to the bench in crunch time this month to see whether Scott wanted a specific play, only to have his coach turn his back on him. It is symptomatic of what one Nets insider says is a problem that has been brewing for a while.

    "Let's put it this way," he said. "Jay just wishes that Byron would do more coaching than the other stuff he gets involved in. And that's a problem."

    How serious is this? Well, for those alarmists among us, another person in the organization says, "I used to think it's 80-20 that Jay would re-sign here. Now I think it's no better than 50-50."

    We don't share this with the intentions of distributing the periodic dish of NBA demagoguery, but you should know this: These aren't the only ones in the organization who believe this relationship is worth watching.

    Indeed, this is probably the kind of conflict that arises every month on every team -- winning teams, losing teams. What makes this different is that the Good Ship Nets has never had such a problem before, because of the chemistry fostered between head coach and star player. Now that chemistry is being threatened, or at least tested.

    And you can easily understand why it is happening. The star is playing his butt off, and more often than not, with very little help. He is waiting for the coach to do something -- anything -- to give the team some binding purpose to hold on to against the tide.

    That's his challenge, and now we find out whether he's up to it. It doesn't help, of course, that he often gets sidetracked by the most idiotic of circumstances. The Sprewell rubbish was significant: Scott's foot-in-mouth routine is harmful enough to his credibility, but when you take on one of the most popular athletes in the market -- even if some of what you say is accurate -- you are asking for negative headlines.

    That's how Lou Lamoriello saw it, anyway. We're told that hockey man went Defcon 3 when he heard about the anti-Spree remarks, and called his coach in to remind him -- not so gently -- that he had ordered him to shut his trap when it came to criticizing another team's personnel. Sounds like one of those NHL protocols, but for once, hockey man is right.

    Apparently, Scott got the message: "I'm going to be me," he announced to a breathless world last night. "But obviously I'm going to watch what I say around you guys from now on."

    See? Coaching is a matter of adjustments. That's probably his best one lately.

    Sorry, cheap shot. But whether Scott knows it or not, there are cheap shots emanating from every corner of the organization lately. Even some of his players wonder why he shows up at 6 p.m., wonder why he needs a nap every afternoon. Odd, but they never questioned his work habits when the team was the class of the East, and they probably shouldn't start now.

    No one has any idea of how much time Scott puts into the job, really. But we're talking about perception here, and perhaps he has some work to do in that regard, or at least give his players a better idea of what they can do to get out of their present situation.

    We've criticized him before, but in the end, you must admit that Scott has handled his affairs quite well. He has assembled an exquisitely balanced staff. He got his team a conference title in his second year. He's doing a lot of things right.

    Others might say that success has always been the greatest of liars, that we really cannot judge how good a coach he is until he is forced to adjust to circumstances that threaten his credibility. The best ones do this, and survive it. It's Scott's turn now. He's not off to a good start, judging by his remarks after Tuesday's Cleveland debacle -- their fifth loss against a sub-.500 team this month.

    That night, the coach admitted, "I am searching a little bit."

    Better find it. And soon.

    Dave D'Alessandro appears



    For argument sake: Would you trade francis for kidd?
     
    #1 dragon167, Feb 28, 2003
  2. carayip

    carayip Member

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    That's NO chance of that happening. Why bother discussing it? :eek:
     
    #2 carayip, Feb 28, 2003
  3. vcchlw

    vcchlw Member

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    Well, possibility rite?But who knows?

    I would pick Kidd of course. Kidd can make every player in his team play better.
     
    #3 vcchlw, Feb 28, 2003
  4. OverRRated

    OverRRated Member

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    Hell yes.
    Yes.
    Hell yes.
     
    #4 OverRRated, Feb 28, 2003
  5. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    No we need to keep Steve Franchise and get us a couple of Point Guards.
     
    #5 Yetti, Feb 28, 2003
  6. MFW2310

    MFW2310 Member

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    No. Kidd is at his prime and can only go downhill from here. Francis still has a chance to get better (one can only hope). But if Kidd is couple years younger, definitely.
     
    #6 MFW2310, Feb 28, 2003
  7. GATER

    GATER Member

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    Your logic confuses me. Gary Payton is 5 years older than Kidd. Stockton is 10 years older than Kidd. There is less dropoff in productive for players who use their brains as well as their athleticism.

    The Rockets currently have the second youngest starting lineup in the league and PG is one of the toughest positions to learn. This may be really offensive to some posters, but Kidd has forgotten more about how to run a fast break the Francis knows. A 30 year old Jason Kidd can grab a rebound and make a basket at the other end of the court in 4.6 seconds (he did it twice on an ESPN broadcast where they placed a stopwatch in the corner of the screen).

    Now if Kidds "ages" and his ability to run the fastbreak from 4.6 drops to 5.6, it's still measurably faster than the Rockets current break.

    Ignoring any salary differences, I'd do it a heartbeat. IMHO, a presence like Kidd would have a hidden immediate benefit - either Griffins game would immediately be elevated or it would be proven once and for all that the trade was a mistake.

    Unfortunately, like carayip pointed out, there is no chance of the ever happening.
     
    #7 GATER, Feb 28, 2003
  8. striker

    striker Member

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    Sorry. Kidd is going to San Antonio. :D
     
    #8 striker, Feb 28, 2003
  9. Toast

    Toast Member

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    Interesting article. I wonder if some of the problems stem from Kidd having "lame duck" syndrome. He's not gonna be in NJ next year, so should he REALLY care about the future of the team?

    Oh, um, go Rockets.
     
    #9 Toast, Feb 28, 2003
  10. Live

    Live Member

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    Not for arguments sake, but for the sake of clarifying some roles on the team, I would consider a Francis-Kidd trade.

    If Francis can't balance "play-maker" and "1st option" roles, then he needs someone to spell it out for him.

    If that means a trade, so be it.
     
    #10 Live, Feb 28, 2003
  11. 3-a-charm

    3-a-charm Member

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    No Brainer. Kidd, hands down, in a heart beat, right now if not sooner. Kidd would take this team further than Francis, but, this team needs other changes for a championship.
     
    #11 3-a-charm, Feb 28, 2003
  12. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Kidd is clearly the better player right now. And Kidd isn't known for relying on his athleticism. So old age will have less effect on him. Let's assume (assumption #1) he can be productive at the current level for another 6 years, and assume (assumption #2) Yao and Griffin needs another year to mature. That's 4 shots at the championship, as a contender, not necessary a favorite--two years from now. (scenario #1)

    Now, Francis has more physical talent than Kidd but not as much brain. Let's assume (assumption #3) that it takes another 5 years for him to smart up, he will then be about as old as Kidd now. Francis with brain and athleticism will be better than Kidd now (awesome). By then, Yao will be in his prime too. Let's assume (assumption #4) that Francis will be awesome for 3 years and be great (losing athleticism but not brain, comparable to Kidd now) for 3 more years. That's 3 championship favorite years and 3 championship contending years--five years from now. (scenario #2)

    Which scenario do you want? If all the assumptions were equally valid, I'd pick scenario #2, waiting for our time with patience. However, I have some doubt with assumption #3. If Francis never gets his brain to make him "awesome", then we will probably be inconsistent throughout the next decade until Francis loses his athleticism.
     
    #12 Easy, Feb 28, 2003
  13. JoeBarelyCares

    JoeBarelyCares Member

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    Which is usually right about the time a player's brain sharpens.
     
    #13 JoeBarelyCares, Feb 28, 2003
  14. CriscoKidd

    CriscoKidd Member

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    Yes.

    I would love to see the talent of this team displayed to it's full potential, and Kidd would do that imo.
     
    #14 CriscoKidd, Feb 28, 2003
  15. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    The future is all about Yao Ming, and Kidd could teach Yao a lot, while winning a championship in the process. And Mobley, Posey would make one helluva fastbreaking trio with Kidd. Talk about giving Kidd some finishers....maaaan.

    I'd do it, and I'd ask for a draft choice, too, to offset the age difference. That said, I would not trade Francis for anything else except a proven PF.
     
    #15 heypartner, Feb 28, 2003
  16. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    btw: the other reason to make the trade is to prevent San Antonio from getting Kidd. If they get Kidd, forget it!
     
    #16 heypartner, Feb 28, 2003
  17. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Member

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    I'd be just as happy with TJ Ford, a poor man's Kidd, running the point. But, yes, I'd trade Steve for Kidd in a NY minute.
     
    #17 Baqui99, Feb 28, 2003
  18. dwmyers

    dwmyers Member

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    I love Steve, but Kidd is the better player. He'd be gone in an instant.

    Dave
     
    #18 dwmyers, Feb 28, 2003
  19. jxu777

    jxu777 Member

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    You guys are some cold-blooded ... uh ... homers:D

    Kidd is a great point guard (ooops, everybody knows that). I watched Kidd since the 3-J days with the Mavs and that funky "revolution led by Jason Kidd" ad. But, somehow, I have a ? attached to Kidd wherever he goes.

    I don't like trading people in general. I don't like this trade in particular. Steve is still coachable at his age. Kidd is not. When going gets rough deep into the playoffs, I think Steve will be more endurable and damaging than Kidd. I can't wait to see Kidd playing in the West.

    Did Q1 of that NY game stimulate some? When Cat brought the ball up and pulled couple of jumpers off screens? I still hold my belief that the Rockets will be so much better if they play within a sound system. At crunch time, I take a Steve-Ming game over a Kidd-mob-Ming game.

    Oops, I sound like a homer ;)
     
    #19 jxu777, Feb 28, 2003
  20. LiTtLeY1521

    LiTtLeY1521 Member

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    Of course I would love Jason Kidd. He is the best true point guard!!!

    But of course...we would never get him...So YEAH.
     
    #20 LiTtLeY1521, Feb 28, 2003
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