For all the lawyers...

i took the LSAT once...scored a 158. got a business degree and finished with a 3.65 overall. not stellar but enough to get into law school.

i've partnered with a friend of mine from church...and we have two other lawyers who work with us. we do commercial litigation, primarily. represent a few financial institutions and serve as general counsel to some medium sized businesses. i do a little bit of probate...and a lot of commercial collections and represent creditors in bankruptcy proceedings. i love litigation and going to court...to me that's why you go to law school and become a lawyer. but i know that's not for everyone. i also like to do legal research.

advice -- hmmm..well i got halfway through law school and was pretty convinced i didn't want to be an attorney. i can't imagine working for a big firm...can't imagine practicing law FOR someone else. i couldn't do it. i'd go do something else, i think. but find what you like most about the law...and pursue a career in that field. life is too short not to do something you love..something that excites you.

good luck!

p.s. don't get pretentious and think your God's gift to humanity because you become a lawyer. lawyers are a dime a dozen, but collectively have such huge egos it's ridiculous. just my personal experience!

 

good college, good lsats, good grades, but my essay was what got me in to a top school, don't underestimate it.

As for the rest, big firm, big money, big loans, long hours, not really sure if it was worth it from my perspective. It's ok I guess, hi stress though sometimes.

 

Don't do it just because it's an option that you think pays well. Too many of my lawyer friends have been beaten down by the hours and stress before they hit 40. Anecdotally, it seems to take a toll on marriages.

My Best man's pool bill is larger than my mortgage but we were talking about how we do the same things when we get home, only I do it after only working 8 hours a day (except during the summer) and for much less money. Once you get into the life, it's hard to keep the balance and you might find you have to keep at it just to support the lifestyle that becomes expected.

That said, there are many good reasons for becoming a lawyer, and if you're lucky, you'll be doing something you like and getting paid well to do it. Just don't do it for the money and think you'll like it later.

 

I'm graduating this month and taking the bar in July. Your grades and your LSAT are weighted as the primary factors for admissions, of course. Sounds like you're ahead of the game there.

I clerked for a judge for 18 months. Got to do ALOT of research. Think about a judicial clerkship once your in if that's your cup of tea.

I now clerk for a medium sized civil defense firm. We do alot of insurance defense and commercial litigation, save for the errant plaintiff's case we occasionally take.

Like MadMax, I love being in the courtroom. Transactional work is ok, but litigating is what I love.

If that was where your interests were, I would recommend alot of advocacy and mock trial work in law school.

Umm, what else....apply for the scholarships and the grants.

Moreover, get to know someone in your Career Services Office. They can be most helpful at setting up legal resumes, helping to usher you through the formal on-campus interview process, etc.....you are paying for these services, so make the most of them!

That's all I can come up right now. Gotta get back to studying the wonderful world of Oil and Gas.

Hope this helps.

 

Im just finishing up my first year at LSU. So far law school has been a great experinece.

You GPA and LSAT are the major factors (many would say only) for geting in. The 157 is a great score for taking is cold and you are very likely to improve on it. I would strongly suggest that you take time to fully prepair for the test. After going through many tests you begin to recongnize differnet questions types and develop an attack plan for them. In particular the games section is an area where almost everone improves with practice. You may also want to consider taking a princeton review course if you can spare the expense.

As for school selection, the most important factor is where you want to practice. Are you planning to stay in texas? Since i applied last year i still remember a majority my research on individual schools. If you have any questions I will be happy to answer them.

Good luck

 

Not a lawyer, but I did go to law school for a year and also worked for a law firm for 3 years. So I'll share my perspective for the hell of it.

I had a B.A. in Psychology with a 3.5 GPA (major and overall). I made a 158 on my first try as well, and ended up scoring a 168 on the real deal after much practice via a Kaplan class. I decided to go to Georgetown in D.C., even though I had scholarship offers from University of Minnesota and UH.

Besides the scores, I think the following also helped me get into Georgetown:

1) Letters of recommendation - Get professors or employers who have reviewed or graded your writing, as they are in the best position to talk about you. Make sure they know you by name, and if it's been awhile since you've seen them, invite them out to dinner. If they are willing to write the L.O.R. (and they usually are), give them copies of the papers you wrote for them to use as reference. Finally, MAKE SURE THEY WRITE THE LETTER THEMSELVES - law schools can tell if you've drafted your own.

2) Personal Story - That's right - I said story, not essay. Nobody wants to read a boring list of accomplishments - that's the purpose of your application. Focus on a particular event in your life, relate it to your interest in the law and make a good, entertaining story out of it. If you have an interest in public interest law, I would highly advise working that into your story. Make sure to have a couple of persons read it (I have a cousin who's on the admission board at a school, and she gave me some great pointers).

When you get your acceptance letters, visit all of the schools. Make sure the law school you pick is right for your personality and don't get blinded by the reputations of big name schools. I am a fairly laid-back guy who devotes a good amount of time to interests (reading, listening to and playing music, Rockets) outside of my career. My biggest mistake was uprooting myself completely from my life in Houston and entering a high profile school in D.C. that was full of Type-A personalities whose whole lives were devoted to the law. Not surprisingly, I hated my surroundings and when I found that I didn't particularly like the subject matter . . . let's just say it was a long, unsuccessful year and I left D.C. as soon as exams were done. I considered transferring, but having worked for a firm previously, I knew I didn't want to be a lawyer. The problem was that with my grades and my debt, I would have needed a job with a law firm to afford my loan repayments. So I decided to go back to work.

I'm now overseeing Business Administration, HR and Benefits at a small computer company. I arrive and leave at a decent hour and have plenty of time to play in a band and do other things. Compared to the 60-70 hour weeks that I would have been working as an attorney, I don't regret leaving law school for a minute.

Back to the topic - if you like research, definitely look into appellate law. You'll have to argue in front of a judge (or judges), but the focus will be on precedent and not procedure. I agree with jlaw - look into clerking for a judge

 

I'm just curious, but as far as law schools go in the state of Texas (there's 4 or 5 I think) how to they rank to each other?

Would there be an order to how good they are compared to each other?

I've heard that UT Law is the best, followed by SMU, but then somebody said that SMU wasn't that great.

Any comments?

BTW: My buddy that is currently in SMU said that to get in, its all about the LSAT and your grades, but if you've got work experience outside of college, your grades don't matter and its almost entirely your LSAT that gets you in...have you heard this, is this true?

 

Different schools have different strengths. Anecdotally, South Texas College of Law & Baylor Law are the best if you plan on trial work. UT great all around, excels at business/securities/white collar type training. UH has the country's best health law program & very strong intellectual property & international law programs.

Don't know much about the other 5 or so...

Again - different schools, different strengths.

 

What's funny is the bar passage rate...traditionally, UH, S. Texas and Baylor rank highest among percentage of students who pass the first time. A couple of tests back, UT had only around 60% of their first timers pass...while Baylor and UH had around 85%. To me, if you go to school and ultimately can't pass the bar the first time, then it really doesn't matter how good your law school education was. You're out for basically 6 months with no law license..until you take the test the next time. And the passing rate for those taking it a second time diminishes considerably from that point.

Take TSU for example...they typically have 30-40% passage rate. I know some attorneys who went to TSU who are very competent attorneys. But I have to tell you...I don't think I'd spend 3 years of my life working towards a goal where others in my shoes are only about 1/3 are passing on the first time. That's just frightening to me.

Law school doesn't teach you all the answers. It can't...because both the answers and the questions keep changing in the law. They teach you to think more rationally...and how to find the answers. You'll spend your first year of law school memorizing civil procedure rules...rules that may change by the time you get out...and rules which are conveniently published each year in a $30 book which you'll reference whenever you need it. It's silly.

 

I am in a three man transactional practice, representing mostly small to medium sized businesses, and doing acquisition work for larger consolidators (not much of that recently).

The good news and the bad news about a law degree is you can do almost anything with it, or nothing. You have a ton of choices, so you will have to do some homework to find the right fit for you. You can work at large firms or small firms. Work at the DA's office. Work for the government, corporate America, or one of the big accounting firms.

You can do research or trial work at any of these places. You will get to do lots of research in most legal related fields, but going to trial regularly is not as common. Most trial lawyers either do civil or criminal trials, but not both, although that is not as true in small town practice. I think it takes a special type of person to criminal defense work. And in civil work, keep in mind there are trial lawyers and there are trial lawyers. Some trial lawyers almost never go to trial (they settle everything), and some are in court daily. Clerking for a judge is a great experience if you can get it. You might also at least take a look at the military. I think the various services (such as Army JAG) have some pretty good deals for lawyers. You go in at a good rank, get decent benefits and experience, see the world, and have better retirement plans than most of corporate America.

If you decide to go, One L, by Scott Turow, is an interesting story of one person's first year at Harvard law school.

 

Don't remember the exact numbers, but I believe it was approximately 2/3 of the tuition.

BTW, if tuition is a major factor for you, UH is one of the best buys in the country. Minnesota is also a very good buy, but you'd basically have to practice in that state (which is why I decided against it).

 

I can't help with all the numbers but I can tell you what I know from my wifes experience.

My wife graduated both UH and UH Law (Which I am told is an oddity)

She clerked at a high profile defense attorneys office while in school and got to work on a VERY big death penalty case. The research and skills she learned there were almost more important than what she learned in school.

She did the study at home course for the bar and did better than most of her friends that went to the class courses. (she has always learned more from studying alone though)

She went all along with the intention of becoming an ADA and that is what she is now for Harris county.

She and I pulled enough loans to get her through school and we will be paying them off until probably the year Yao retires, or later.

And for burnout, marriages and such. I can say (knock on wood) that we have had some rough times but not near what some of her friends have gone though in her two years there.


I do get some great stories at the end of the day though

 

I took a princeton review course that helped me quite a bit. From what i have heard Kaplan basically sucks.

My best advice about prep courses is that their value completely depends on you study habits. If you are someone that can make yourself take many practice tests and spend hours going over them simply from your own motivation then the course may not be that benificial. For somelike me that is a bit of a slacker it provided the needed structure to help me prepair.

I looked at most Texas schools last year when i wan applying. I believe and most will too that UT is by far the best school in the state and is really cheap too. However is is extremely difficult to get in. One of my friends got rejected last year with 3.7/162 and another got rejected this year with a 3.4/166. The are very GPA heavy so you may have a legidimate shot if you can get you lsat up a few points.

As for the rest most will argue between Baylor, SMU and UH for the second position but i believe that they relatively the same. They each have their various strengths and weaknesses. I will do my best to describe what i know:

Baylor: extremely litigation oriented and is cheap (15k yr) for a private school. The odd thing is that they run on a quarter system rather than a semester. The advantage is that you have less classes to worry about at one time (big plus) but you have to take finals more often (finals suck more that you could imagine). They also have the summer admissions which may give you a stronger chance at revieving a sizable scholarship. You should easily be able to get in in the summer and likely to get in for fall admissions.

SMU: Places extremely well in DFW and has a very high average starting salary. I got the impression that most SMU grads go on the do some form of corporate law. The big downside is it is extremely expensive (25k+ yr) However they do give out alot of scholarships. As for admissions they have been getting much tougher to get into over the last year or so likely do to the bad economy and the amout of business typs applying. In the past i would gess you could get in with no problems but now I have no idea. If you want to practice out of that SMU arguably has the better reputation of the three in other states.

UH: I dont know that much about UH other than it is very cheap and has a great reputaion. Im also not sure what they specialize in. One of my friends is a 1L there now and loves it.

if you have any question please ask it will keep me from studying

 

Health Law and to a lesser degree, Intellectual Property.