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Fire Baker

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Jeremy Williams, Sep 12, 2020.

  1. Screaming Fist

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    Doesn’t it strike anyone as odd that Crane appears to be the one deciding who will be the manager over Click’s head? I remember Luhnow was given free reign over this organization and it doesn’t seem like Click is being given that sake level of respect.
     
  2. Big Uns

    Big Uns Member

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    I think a huge mistake was not sending Altuve after the very 1st hit of the ball game. How do you not against a guy who has thrown out 2 out of 47 runners?

    It's the World Series and he played it scared. I think he let the you guys go too long putting us behind. And The decision the pitch Javier tonight was balls dumb.
     
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  3. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    I do not. Crane hired Porter and Baker. I'm unsure about Hinch. Crane certainly had the final say on all of the Astros manager hires.
     
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  4. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard
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    Coming into the game I expected 2 IP for Luis on short rest then Odo as your bulk guy before getting into the high leverage tandem of Maton, Stanek, Graveman, Press.

    As with the Altuve baserunning, he has a tendency to get picked off, so I am fine with him not running. Correa, Yordan, Gurriel should have at least had one hit between them...
     
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  5. Elienator

    Elienator Member

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    No. I also don't think Click has any major problems with Dusty.

    Most of what a manager does is not visible to the public and by all accounts Dusty is very good at those things. The in-game moves he made in the post-season seemed like they were either collective decisions or aligned with the overall front office philosophies. He outmanaged Cora and Roberts and got an amazing overall performance out of the bullpen.
     
  6. Screaming Fist

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    I don't think it's necessary true that he out managed La Russa and Cora, and I put the credit for how the bullpen performed on Click, Strom, and Strom's underlings. Using Yimi to face a pair of switch hitters in game three of the ALDS was a huge blunder, as well as bringing in Odorizzi mid-inning with runners on in the ALCS. Trying to get Garcia through the lineup a second time in game six of the World Series also made little sense with what was available. Maybe more importantly than those decisions, he rode McCullers hard in the second half of the season in terms of pitches per outing and that could have contributed to McCullers' injury in the post-season which crippled the team.

    As for Click not having any problems with Dusty, Dusty has made several comments over the course of the season critical of decisions made by Click. He clearly did not support trading Straw and also made comments critical of the Astros' use of the shift. Castro's usage this season as a backup catcher is also incongruent with both Castro's talent relative to Maldy (Castro being literally 2+ wins better offensively over a full season) and the amount of money Castro is being paid. Either Click was an idiot for signing Castro to that contract or Castro has not been utilized as Click envisioned.
     
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  7. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    I thought the decision to bring Garcia back on short rest was poor. It's one thing with a veteran like Clemens or Verlander (although ....) but a rookie who is already way past his previous high in IP, certainly didn't want him facing the lineup a second time

    Dusty's personal issues with Odorizzi, whatever they are, put us in an even worse place pitching wise. We needed a guy who could give a bit of length, and Odorizzi pitched well late and general in the postseason in limited action....

    Also reading some of Strom's comments this morning I think it's fairly clear he didn't communicate well with Dusty and likely wasn't real involved in some of the pitching decisions

    Dusty by all accounts seems like a good dude....hope he is no longer our manager though
     
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  8. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard
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    But the narrative here and on Crawfish Boxes is that Dusty and Strom were always in lock step in pitching decisions... I wonder if Odo's issue was with Dusty or Strom...
     
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  9. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    LOL you actually think dusty is making these decisions himself or willy nilly?

    I guarantee you Strom has more say in pitching decisions than Dusty.
     
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  10. Elienator

    Elienator Member

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    It sounds like you've already decided to give Click/Strom all the credit for anything positive that happened with pitching and Dusty the blame for anything negative.

    The Astros bullpen pitched 82 innings in the post season (25 more than any other team) and had the second lowest ERA (3.07) and WHIP (1.1) behind the Dodgers. Their starters pitched 58 innings (< 4 per game) with a 6.36 ERA. It's somewhat of a miracle they made it as far as they did with how bad their starters pitched. If you want to criticize individual bullpen decisions fine, but I don't see how can objectively say that Dusty did not manage the bullpen effectively in the playoffs.

    Why does it matter that Dusty liked Straw on the team or complained at times when the shift failed? Having a disagreement with a coworker doesn't mean you don't like them or can't work together. He used Maton effectively (to the point many on this board complained how much he used him) and the Astros continued to the shift.
     
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  11. Screaming Fist

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    Anytime managers have been looked at analytically in terms of utilizing their bullpen effectively Dusty has been at or near the bottom, so yes I'm pretty skeptical of Dusty and nothing he's done in his time here has made me think otherwise.

    I also find it very doubtful that if Click had his druthers Dusty would still be managing this team and I think it's important, given the amount of time the manager spends around the players, that there be a good fit between the GM and manager. One of the edges the Astros had in past years was player buy-in on things like utilizing shifts which can't be accomplished without the right fit at manager. There is obviously a large amount of friction between Click and Dusty to the point where it's been widely speculated that Click had to trade Straw to get him out of Dusty's lineups.
     
  12. Jalen Green OnlyFan

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    Anyone blaming dusty is on drugs. We didn’t lose 6-7…. 0-7

    we lost this series because our hitters choked in multiple games.
     
  13. CrazyJoeDavola

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    If anything you could maybe give Dusty grief for not moving Bergman down in the order sooner. Would it have made a difference in games 1, 3 and 4?

    Certainly didn't make a difference last night.
     
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  14. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

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    Joe Espada is being heavily favored to be interviewed.

    The Astros need Joe Espada to be the Manager, for the future it is the right move.
     
  15. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

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    Click is not the GM Crane would have chosen if he had the opportunity to vet him. He had to put someone in the job quickly to keep the team from capsizing when he was forced to remove Luhnow. Click is not competent to have free reign over this organization and in the fullness of time he will have to be replaced.
     
  16. phasors28

    phasors28 Member

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    Is this your opinion, based on sources, or written somewhere?
     
  17. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

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    We all saw what kind of GM Crane selected when he had the opportunity to set the terms of the selection process. It is time for him to resume control of his team and the first step will be bringing in a GM that is his guy. I believe the time is right to get that done now.
     
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  18. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com
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    He elected to hire Luhnow and Click is the same type of GM as Luhnow. Actually Click was more proven when hired since Luhnow never had GM experience. Click isn't going anywhere.
     
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  19. Elienator

    Elienator Member

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    Can you point to some recent analysis showing Dusty does not use analytics or has bad bullpen usage? I'd love to read as I like these topics and have not seen any analysis showing that. The analysis I've seen is that his managerial trends match baseball overall and even the complaints about his time managing the Reds did not continue with the Nationals and Astros.

    Dusty spoke at the Sloan Sorts Conference and has had plenty of interviews where he's discussed analytics, the value they add, and how he's adapted based on the wealth of information they provide. He's not on the forefront of analytics, but all the evidence I've seen don't indicate he is anti-analytical or manages in a way not supported by analytics.

    Straw wasn't traded to prevent Dusty from using him, he was traded to bring in bullpen help, a catching prospect, and make room on the roster for a guy who hadn't even been on the major league team at that point. You are right Dusty wasn't happy with the Straw trade when it happened, but let's look at what he's said since then:

    "James did a great job addressing and trying to shore up our bullpen."
    "The Straw for Maton wasn't a popular move... it wasn't popular on the team, but sometimes moves work out. I still takes time."
    "Even there were some things that I didn't know how to feel or necessarily agree with, but I've got to commend (Click) that he was right and things have worked out for us and the players."
    "That's what a team is all about.... What makes the world go round is nobody agrees all the time. I don't know how you guys' jobs are. Maybe you agree all the time. I doubt it."

    That doesn't sound like someone who is holding a grudge or has a negative relationship with his team and co-workers to me. I don't know James Click, but I would be highly questionable of his abilities as a GM if his main hiring criteria was "never disagrees with me."
     
  20. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    The should just rehire luhnow. He might be bad person, but he wins.
     

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