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FBI has been watching ACLU, Greenpeace, other rights groups

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by wnes, Jul 18, 2005.

  1. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Large Volume of F.B.I. Files Alarms U.S. Activist Groups
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/18/politics/18protest.html

    By ERIC LICHTBLAU
    Published: July 18, 2005

    WASHINGTON, July 17 - The Federal Bureau of Investigation has collected at least 3,500 pages of internal documents in the last several years on a handful of civil rights and antiwar protest groups in what the groups charge is an attempt to stifle political opposition to the Bush administration.

    The F.B.I. has in its files 1,173 pages of internal documents on the American Civil Liberties Union, the leading critic of the Bush administration's antiterrorism policies, and 2,383 pages on Greenpeace, an environmental group that has led acts of civil disobedience in protest over the administration's policies, the Justice Department disclosed in a court filing this month in a federal court in Washington.

    The filing came as part of a lawsuit under the Freedom of Information Act brought by the A.C.L.U. and other groups that maintain that the F.B.I. has engaged in a pattern of political surveillance against critics of the Bush administration. A smaller batch of documents already turned over by the government sheds light on the interest of F.B.I. counterterrorism officials in protests surrounding the Iraq war and last year's Republican National Convention.

    F.B.I. and Justice Department officials declined to say what was in the A.C.L.U. and Greenpeace files, citing the pending lawsuit. But they stressed that as a matter of both policy and practice, they have not sought to monitor the political activities of any activist groups and that any intelligence-gathering activities related to political protests are intended to prevent disruptive and criminal activity at demonstrations, not to quell free speech. They said there might be an innocuous explanation for the large volume of files on the A.C.L.U. and Greenpeace, like preserving requests from or complaints about the groups in agency files.

    But officials at the two groups said they were troubled by the disclosure.

    "I'm still somewhat shocked by the size of the file on us," said Anthony D. Romero, executive director of the A.C.L.U. "Why would the F.B.I. collect almost 1,200 pages on a civil rights organization engaged in lawful activity? What justification could there be, other than political surveillance of lawful First Amendment activities?"

    Protest groups charge that F.B.I. counterterrorism officials have used their expanded powers since the Sept. 11 attacks to blur the line between legitimate civil disobedience and violent or terrorist activity in what they liken to F.B.I. political surveillance of the 1960's. The debate became particularly heated during protests over the war in Iraq and the run-up to the Republican National Convention in New York City last year, with the disclosures that the F.B.I. had collected extensive information on plans for protests.

    In all, the A.C.L.U. is seeking F.B.I. records since 2001 or earlier on some 150 groups that have been critical of the Bush administration's policies on the Iraq war and other matters.

    The Justice Department is opposing the A.C.L.U.'s request to expedite the review of material it is seeking under the Freedom of Information Act, saying it does not involve a matter of urgent public interest, and department lawyers say the sheer volume of material, in the thousands of pages, will take them 8 to 11 months to process for Greenpeace and the A.C.L.U alone. The A.C.L.U., which went to court in a separate case to obtain some 60,000 pages of records on the government's detention and interrogation practices, said the F.B.I. records on the dozens of protest groups could total tens of thousands of pages by the time the request is completed.

    The much smaller files that the F.B.I. has already turned over in recent weeks center on two other groups that were involved in political protests in the last few years, and those files point to previously undisclosed communications by bureau counterterrorism officials regarding activity at protests.

    Six pages of internal F.B.I. documents on a group called United for Peace and Justice, which led wide-scale protests over the Iraq war, discuss the group's role in 2003 in preparing protests for the Republican National Convention.

    A memorandum by counterterrorism personnel in the F.B.I.'s Los Angeles office circulated to other counterterrorism officials in New York, Boston, Los Angeles and Washington makes passing reference to possible anarchist connections of some protesters and the prospect for disruptions but also quotes at much greater length from more benign statements protesters had released on the Internet and elsewhere to prepare for the Republican convention.

    One section of the F.B.I. memo, for instance, quotes from a statement put out by protesters to rally support for convention protests: "Imagine: A million people on the street, representing the diversity of New York, and the multiplicity of this nation - community organizers, black radicals, unions, anarchists, church groups, queers, grandmas for peace, AIDS activists, youth organizers, environmentalists, people of color contingents, global justice organizers, those united for peace and justice, veterans, and everyone who is maligned by Bush's malicious agenda - on the street - en masse."

    A second file turned over by the F.B.I. on the American Indian Movement of Colorado includes seven pages of internal documents and press clippings related to protests and possible disruptions in the Denver area in connection with Columbus Day. In that case, a 2002 memorandum distributed to F.B.I. counterterrorism officials from agents in Denver said that "although the majority of demonstrators at the Columbus Day events will be peaceful, a small fraction of individuals intent on causing violence and property damage can be expected."

    An agent in Denver requested that the F.B.I. open a preliminary investigation "to allow for identification and investigation of individuals planning criminal activity during Columbus Day, October 2002," the memorandum said. The file does not indicate what came of the request.

    The documents are similar in tone to a controversial bulletin distributed among F.B.I. counterterrorism officials in October 2003 that analyzed the tactics, training and organization of antiwar demonstrators who were then planning protests in Washington and San Francisco.

    The 2003 memo led to an internal Justice Department inquiry after an F.B.I. employee charged that it improperly blurred the line between lawfully protected speech and illegal activity. But the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel found that the bulletin raised no legal problems and that any First Amendment impact posed by the F.B.I.'s monitoring of the political protests was negligible and constitutional.

    Still, the debate over the F.B.I.'s practices intensified last year during the presidential campaign. The F.B.I. questioned numerous political protesters, and issued subpoenas for some to appear before grand juries, in an effort to head off what officials said they feared could be violent and disruptive convention protests. And the Justice Department opened a criminal investigation and subpoenaed records regarding Internet messages posted by critics of the Bush administration that listed the names of delegates to the Republican convention.

    Leslie Cagan, the national coordinator for United for Peace and Justice, a coalition of more than 1,000 antiwar groups, said she was particularly concerned that the F.B.I.'s counterterrorism division was discussing the coalition's operations. "We always assumed the F.B.I. was monitoring us, but to see the counterterrorism people looking at us like this is pretty jarring," she said.

    At Greenpeace, which has protested both the Bush administration's environmental record and its policies in Iraq, John Passacantando, executive director of the group's United States operation, said he too was troubled by what he had learned.

    "If the F.B.I. has taken the time to gather 2,400 pages of information on an organization that has a perfect record of peaceful activity for 34 years, it suggests they're just attempting to stifle the voices of their critics," Mr. Passacantando said.

    Greenpeace was indicted as an organization by the Justice Department in a highly unusual prosecution in 2003 after two of its protesters went aboard a cargo ship to try to unfurl a protest banner. A federal judge in Miami threw out the case last year.
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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  3. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    I would believe if there was a revolution or attempt at one, it'd be by a peaceful rights group.
     
  4. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    This is good. Those org's would be the perfect place for a terrorist to hide out in. Heck, they'd probably be welcomed by those "open minded" groups.
     
  5. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Signed Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols
     
  6. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    LOL! I guess this confirms that the FBI and our government in general spies on EVERYONE and EVERY GROUP, ranging from religious communities, ethnic groups, civil rights groups, political groups, even right-wing religious groups (Yes, ask the various right-wing militias in our country, or the Chrsitian Coalition for that matter, and they will confirm this).

    A police state? Not really, because afterall, what else would you do if you had the technology and the power to snoop on people? You would probably do the same thing anyways.

    This is exactly why things like the PATRIOT Act among others are really meaningless, or these debates we keep having about "profiling" or "monitoring" specific groups are really useless, because like it or not, our government spies on us whether we realize it or not.

    I would expect nothing less from Big Brother.
     
  7. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Well, this should put an end to the Bush followers who claim that our civil liberties are NOT being reduced.

    Well, of course not. Only sworn affidavits saying: "We acknlowlege that we are reducing civil liberties" would be sufficient for the true believers. Even then, half of them would be like well it was necessary to do so and we have too many civil liberties anyway. Besides Sadam, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro etc. were worse, so what are you worried about?"
     
    #7 glynch, Jul 18, 2005
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2005
  8. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Good point.
     
  9. OldManBernie

    OldManBernie Old Fogey

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    I guess I fall under the second group then. I see nothing wrong with surveillance of organizations. The article's comparison of this to the J. Edgar Hoover era is unjustified. J. Edgar Hoover systematically used information he gathered to harass civil rights and other various organizations. This administration has done nothing like that.

    If we were to simply take a closer look at suspected organizations (i.e. Muslim religious groups and other suspected terrorist orgs), that would leave too many holes for terrorists to hide. In addition, it would be no different than selective profiling. Organizations would then be investigated simply because of their legal beliefs or legal motives when no probable cause is present. That would simply be unconstitutional.

    Basically, all I'm saying, fair is fair. In fact, they should be glad that the government isn't sending the IRS after them to check their sponsorships and spending.
     
  10. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    It's great informed citizens like yourself that are the vanguards of liberty! :rolleyes:
     
  11. OldManBernie

    OldManBernie Old Fogey

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    Well... help me out here. Please name an occasion where the government have taken advantage of the information and exploited the group with the information.
     
  12. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    I have always remembered from history class that Grant's term was the most corrput administration in the history. How does this administration stack up against the Grant administration?
     
  13. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    I guess if the FBI spies on every orginazation they can't be accused of only picking on Muslim orginazations.

    I think they better find out what is going on in AARP. Their ranks are swelling with baby boomers and I worry about what all of those older Americans are up too.
     
  14. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Ya, my mom told me AARP is planning a rebellion if social security get reduced. :D
     
  15. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Member

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    I see nothing wrong with this...In fact, more of this should have been done b/f 9/11...As they say, its better to be safe than sorry...
     
  16. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    It makes Grant's Administration look like a Girl Scout meeting.
     
  17. ricky-retardo

    ricky-retardo Member

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    That it. The Girl Scouts are on the list as well.
     
  18. FranchiseBlade

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    The Black Panthers
     
  19. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Why would the Government spy on itself? :confused:
     

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