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Fab Five 30 For 30

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by pgabriel, Mar 14, 2011.

  1. ubigred

    ubigred Contributing Member

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    So don't comment in the thread...lame.
     
  2. HOOP-T

    HOOP-T Member

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    I went to high school at Plano East with Jimmy. He's originally from South Bend, IN, which does have a mentionable crime rate and some "ghetto-like" areas. However, Plano has no real ghetto to speak of. Although Jimmy did live in East Plano, which does have a sizeable area of families that live below the poverty line...Douglass Community (as well as Section 8 housing nearby).

    There has been lots of drug activity, murders, and gang activity there for decades.

    I think Jimmy lived a lower-middle class lifestyle for the most part. But he did live and spend time in some rough areas.
     
  3. Kam

    Kam Contributing Member

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    Grant Hill is responding tomorrow, (today) via New York times.
     
  4. Kwame

    Kwame Contributing Member

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    If anybody knows of a place I can watch the UNLV documentary online, I would greatly appreciate it. I don't have HBO :(
     
  5. bratna8

    bratna8 Member

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    Johnson didn't want to take that last shot and passed it to Hunt which he ended up taking a very well contested 30ft. shot.

    Hunt was the tournament MVP when they won the year before and would've won it again if they won that game.
     
  6. BMoney

    BMoney Contributing Member

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    Jason Whitlock pretty much obliterated this revisionist history puff piece.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebas...er-Juwan-Howard-Jimmy-King-Ray-Jackson-031511

    It was my intention to ignore ESPN’s “The Fab Five” documentary.

    I assumed their “legacy” would be framed inaccurately by the doc’s executive producer Jalen Rose, the leader of the Fab Five.


    Despite all the hype they've gotten, Michigan's Fab Five have nothing on these sports dynasties.
    Earning $125 million in the NBA and transitioning into a TV talking head produces little self-awareness and even fewer qualifications as a documentarian.

    Give Rose credit. He talked a major television network and an alleged news organization into allowing him to write his own 90-minute history. We should all be so lucky.

    With the help of the Worldwide Leader, Rose took baggy shorts, black socks, bald heads and trash talk and created the illusion the Fab Five were some sort of transcendent, revolutionary freedom fighters cut from the same cloth as Jackie Robinson, Jim Brown, Arthur Ashe and Muhammad Ali.

    It’s laughably untrue.

    The legacy of the Fab Five is that they were on the cutting edge of America’s unashamed embrace of style over substance.

    When Rose ended the documentary waxing about how no one knows the names of the starters on North Carolina’s 1993 national championship team and everyone remembers Rose, Webber, Howard, King and Jackson, it dawned on me the Fab Five were the original Charlie Sheen.



    Let me make this clear: I do not dislike the Fab Five. I made my bones as a journalist covering the Fab Five for the Ann Arbor News. I have a strong affinity for Rose, Juwan Howard and Ray Jackson. I have a great deal of respect for Chris Webber, particularly the way he handled the aftermath of the “timeout” and his work as an NBA broadcaster. I never developed any kind of connection with Jimmy King.

    But the celebration of this documentary annoys me.

    The Fab Five are taking credit for the real accomplishments of John Thompson’s and Patrick Ewing’s Georgetown Hoyas.

    It was Thompson’s all-black, Ewing-led teams a decade before the Fab Five that shook the foundation of college basketball, changed the complexion of starting lineups across the country, opened coaching doors that had previously been closed to blacks and paved the way for black sportswriters at major newspapers.

    It’s easy to forgive Rose for his lack of self-awareness. It’s America. In this country, self-awareness and common sense are our most rare commodities.

    What’s not easy to excuse is the clueless robbery of what Thompson, Ewing, Bill Martin, Reggie Williams, Horace Broadnax and David Wingate accomplished.

    They won championships — conference and national. They scared and intimidated the establishment. They were the inner-city black kids who left a legacy of jobs and playing opportunities for other impoverished minorities that exposes the lack of substance in the fads popularized by the Fab Five.


    “Hoya Paranoia” is the story that deserves celebration and should serve as a teaching tool. Fab Five is a safe, harmless story celebrating black kids for choosing style over substance.

    Rather than participate in the documentary, Public Enemy’s Chuck D should’ve remade “Don’t Believe the Hype” and replaced Elvis with Jalen Rose.

    Five super-talented black kids enrolled at a prestigious, white university to play for an inexperienced, piss-poor-at-the-time white coach and, 20 years later, had the audacity to embark on a media tour preaching about black Duke players being Uncle Toms.

    Are you kidding me?

    Are we really this lost as a people?

    Let’s end the facade that Rose’s words about the Duke players are being taken out of context. On Monday, Jimmy King was on ESPN spewing this nonsense.

    Last week Webber published this bit of nonsense on his blog.

    The Fab Five clearly believe Coach K and Duke didn’t and don’t recruit inner-city black kids, and they believe race/racism/elitism are the driving forces behind the philosophy.

    Let’s go back to the Fab Five era and Duke’s philosophy then. Coach K recruited kids who had every intention of staying in school for four years. He recruited kids who had a good chance of competing academically at Duke and could meet the standardized test score qualifications for entrance.

    The Fab Five stated it was their intention to win a national championship and turn pro as a group after their sophomore season. Webber, who was recruited by Duke, left Michigan after two years. Rose and Howard left as juniors. Impoverished inner-city kids have good reason to turn pro early. I’m not knocking Webber, Howard and Rose for their decisions. They didn’t fit the Duke profile at the time.

    Furthermore, unlike Steve Fisher at the time, Coach K did more than roll the ball on the court. He coached.



    If you have a question or comment for Jason, submit it below and he may just respond.
    Subject:

    Comment/Question:




    The ideal in college basketball is to lead four-year student-athletes to conference and national championships. That’s the goal.

    During the three-year run of the Fab Five (one season without Webber), Duke beat Michigan all four times the schools met while winning two ACC titles and one NCAA title. During the same span, Michigan won zero conference or national titles. In addition, Webber’s interactions with booster Ed Martin put the program on probation and caused Michigan to forfeit all its games.

    I think Coach K recruited and recruits the right kids for Duke.

    It’s ridiculous for Webber to insinuate that Coach K feared the Fab Five were “thugs and killers.”

    Coach K probably thought the same thing I thought watching the Fab Five play: They’re immature, arrogant, interested in playing for a coach they could ignore and incapable of putting together the consistent focus and effort necessary to win a conference championship.

    Two teams consistently beat the Fab Five — Duke (4-0) and Indiana (4-2).

    Let me translate that for you: Structured, disciplined, well-coached teams beat Michigan.

    While making money for their white university and allowing their incompetent, white coach to learn on the job, the Fab Five were not man enough to harness the courage and focus to outduel — in their minds — inferior, racist teams.

    Now tell me who the sellouts were?

    It wasn’t John Thompson, Patrick Ewing or Grant Hill.
     
  7. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    :eek: Good attempt with the reference. Except Whitlock got it wrong cuz he got songs confused. Elvis wasn't mentioned in "Don't Believe the Hype", he was mentioned in "Fight The Power". Though replacing Elvis in "Fight the Power" might in a way still fit considering Jalen Rose's "Uncle Tom" comment.
     
  8. bloop

    bloop Member

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    The problem with these 30 for 30 "documentaries" is that they're all melodramatic and one-sided, often focusing on the emotional impact of the players they profile without any of the burden of OBJECTIVITY which should be the anchorpoint of any documentary.

    For example the Petrovic doc was ****ing wack, made it seem like Vlade was the victim.

    The main thing about the Fab 5 is that they weren't that revolutionary. Jordan and the NBA already had the baggy shorts in full effect and even suburban kids played in them. Hip Hop wasn't revolutionary. We're talking about a year after Vanilla Ice. That's as mainstream as you can get. If any cultural force was coming up it was Seattle rock and grunge and the upswing of the popularity of the NFL.

    The specific thing that you have in the phenomena of the Fab 5 is the fact that Fisher was desperate enough to win that he basically sold the college coaches' handbook down the river. He was willing to look the other way while the kids took money, hire their "mentors" and put them on staff, play them over upperclassmen who had already won a title, etc. It is significant for the impact that they had on other coaches. But not really on how ball was played at any level except that it convinced the NBA (along with guys like Kemp) to look at 18 year olds as legit draft prospects.

    Also as someone in the thread mentioned, NCAA was not big back then like it is today. The NBA was where it was at, a lot of people back then had never even heard of the Fab 5. The 30 for 30 makes it seem like they were this huge phenomena across society and it was not.

    And the **** that Rose says is stupid as ****. He says Duke was full of Uncle Toms. Well before Howard recruited him Weber was on his way to Duke. So, what the Fab 5 are also Uncle Toms? Stupid.
     
  9. MourningWood

    MourningWood Contributing Member

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    Jalen Rose overplayed the whole "us against the world" card in the ESPN film, and I got tired of listening to him make references to their swagger and street cred. He desperately tried to steal UNLV's thunder, IMO. He stated that they revolutionized baggy shorts (which is complete BS - see the Greg Anthony/Larry Johnson/Stacey Augmon days at Vegas), and he acted like they spearheaded some sort of urban movement. Let's not forget that Tupac was a staunch supporter of UNLV, and rocked a Runnin' Rebels hoodie in the music video, "Brenda's Got a Baby." UNLV was everything the Fab 5 wanted to be, including National Champions.

    By the way, the UNLV doc on HBO was excellent. Highly recommended. I found it hilarious that Greg Anthony was the president of the Young Republicans in college. I preferred UNLV's big 2 of LJ and Anthony to C-Webb and Rose.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    Fab Five popularity came right at
    - the rise of Jordan-mania after he won his first title,
    - when the Olympic DREAM TEAM was formed. The WHOLE basketball world was lifted. Fab Five piggy backed off that concept.
    - ESPN Sportscenter DEFINITELY was on the rise. Non stop Jordan coverage around the clock, could easily extend some of that attention over to that upstart Fab Five group.

    They were a media enabled/media friendly group of guys to cover. They happened to have a bunch of minorly significant "firsts" that gets extrapolated out to make them trailblazers. They popularized a culture, they looked aesthetically sleeker doing it, though I wouldnt say they revolutionized it.

    Fab Five popularized the black socks in black shoes and big shorts. The shave head look, brought into prominence by Jalen Rose? No that was Jordan's look already, but nice try. Fab Five didnt really show that shaved heads are now in, they mostly showed hi-top fades where officially OUT.

    They helped removed the stigma of playing freshman TOGETHER. Though it wasnt like freshman players never entered games before. It was FRESHMAN Michael Jordan who hit a championship winning shot 10 years before the Fab Five. FRESHMAN "Never Nervous" Pervis Ellison led his team to a championship 5-6 years before the Fab Five. Really if you got half the top 10 nation's best recruits on the team, it would maybe make sense to play them.

    They backed it up by being GOOD mostly. They did actually play a talented brand of ball that was fun to watch led by an excellent Chris Webber. Webber had it all. It was probably Webber himself with his unique set of skills for a big man that was the most revolutionary aspect.
     
  11. MourningWood

    MourningWood Contributing Member

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    I'd take this 5:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Jason Whitlock <

    The documentary was not trying to put them on the level of Muhammad Ali, Tiger Woods, or Michael Jordan.

    It is what it is. The Fab 5 is one of the most popular college basketball team like it or not and they did a documentary. So what is the problem on doing a documentary on a team that was very popular?
     
  13. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Did you not pay attention to the documentary? Yes Duke recruited Webber. Webber was not from the inner city like the rest of them. Chris Webber went to a private school in Detroit(same school Shane Battier went to). Again Jalen Rose thoughts on Duke was his thoughts on Duke as a jealous bitter recruit. He admitted he was mainly jealous and angry that Duke didn't recruit him and he was jealous of Grant Hill because of how his father treated him even though he was a famous basketball player. The Uncle Tom comments might have been over the top but honesty Jalen Rose comments on Duke is something a lot of fans have just joked about or dissed Duke about when discussing them.
     
  14. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    I wonder what Jason Whitlock thinks about Steve Fisher and his coaching abilities now - as he led San Diego State to a 32-2 record with a bunch of guys that outside of college basketball diehards have never heard of.
     
  15. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Jason Whitlock, what a gas can.
     
  16. Victorious

    Victorious Member

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    Anyone have a streaming or download link?
     
  17. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Bingo. Not really a gas can but a tub o' lard.
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    they didn't say they were revolutionaries on race. they were revolutionaries on starting five freshmen.

    on the hip hop angle, hip hop was still not very mainstream outside of kids in the suburbs in 91. now you have forty year old white guys who grew up on hip hop just like their black contemporaries
     
  19. rockets934life

    rockets934life Contributing Member

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    Grant Hill responds to Fab Five criticism of Duke with 'New York Times' column

     
  20. percicles

    percicles Contributing Member

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    Jabba the Whitlock speaks the truth.
     

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