It amazes me how people can believe the theory of one man , than what millions of people already believe about the world's creation . But I guess it was just the "gig" America was looking for to kick Creationism and "Religion" out of The Schools and Politics . Well the theory of evolution stumbled again when Scientists discovered a skull that was different and outdated the supposed "Lucy" skull which was supposed to be the main skull linking early humans . In schools you still teach theories like the "Horse series" and the "Embryo Theory" which was disproved just 6 years after the theory was popularizied in the late 19th century and still you teach it . Even thought Your "savior" Charles Darwin denounced the theory , which you still wont admit , you still teach it . The truth is Evolution keeps running into more and more dead ends and its running out of other directions to turn . ------------------ "Eat your kids, play with your dinner and join the chat" - Dr of Dunk gives a public sevice announcement at the request of Mike Tyson . [This message has been edited by moestavern19 (edited March 22, 2001).]
Here is the article in case anyone missed it. From the New York Times. Skull May Alter Expert's View of Human Descent's Branches Paleontologists in Africa have found a 3.5 million-year-old skull from what they say is an entirely new branch of the early human family tree, a discovery that threatens to overturn the prevailing view that a single line of descent stretched through the early stages of human ancestry. The discoverers and other scientists of human evolution say they are not necessarily surprised by the findings, but certainly confused. Now it seems that the fossil species Australopithecus afarensis, which lived from about four million to three million years ago and is best known from the celebrated Lucy skeleton, was not alone on the African plain. Lucy may not even be a direct human ancestor after all. Indeed, the family tree, once drawn with a trunk straight and true, is beginning to look more like a bush, with a tangle of branches of uncertain relationship leading in many directions. The skull discovery was made in 1999 by a research team led by Dr. Meave G. Leakey excavating on the western side of Lake Turkana in northern Kenya. Only after careful analysis did the scientists conclude that the nearly complete skull and partial jaw represented a completely different genus and species. The flattened face and small molars were strikingly different from those of the contemporary afarensis, or Lucy, species. In a report in today's issue of the journal Nature, Dr. Leakey formally named the new member of the hominid family Kenyanthropus platyops, or flat-faced man of Kenya. The dates for the fossils, ranging from 3.2 to 3.5 million years old, were derived from volcanic ash buried at the site. The sex of the individual has not been determined. "Kenyanthropus shows persuasively that at least two lineages existed as far back as 3.5 million years," Dr. Leakey said in a statement issued by the National Museums of Kenya in Nairobi, where she is the principal paleoanthropologist. "The early stages of human evolution are more complex than we previously thought." In a telephone interview, Dr. Leakey said the diversity in fossil hominids should not be surprising, because the ancestry of mammals is usually marked by many different branches. When the early hominids split off from ancestors of the ape and started walking on two legs, they would have been capable of moving into new habitats and developing into new species. Dr. Ian Tattersall, an evolutionary biologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, said the discovery was "very important because it finally recognized the diversity among fossil hominids." Until recently, scientists have recognized only three groups of hominids. The genus Homo evolved more than two million years ago and led to modern humans. Paranthropus was a robust contemporary of Homo that became extinct about one million years ago. Both groups were presumed to have descended from an early species of the other hominid genus, Australopithecus. Ever since its discovery in 1974 in Ethiopia by Dr. Donald Johanson, the australopithecine known as Lucy, or afarensis, has been generally regarded as the most likely common ancestor of all subsequent hominids, including humans. In the absence of any other hominid fossils between about 3.8 million and 3 million years ago, it seemed to be the only tentative conclusion scientists could draw. Dr. Frank Brown, a University of Utah geologist who was a member of Dr. Leakey's team, said the place of afarensis and the new fossil species in human ancestry would be debated in the coming years. Dr. Leakey's journal article does not take a position on the issue. "Anthropologists will have to decide which of these forms of early human actually lies in our ancestral tree," Dr. Brown said. "It cannot be both." In a commentary in Nature, Dr. Daniel E. Lieberman of George Washington University wrote, "I suspect the chief role of K. platyops in the next few years will be to act as a sort of party spoiler, highlighting the confusion that confronts research into evolutionary relationships among hominids." Or as Dr. Tim D. White of the University of California at Berkeley said in an interview, "The arms will be waving faster than helicopter blades." Dr. White is a paleoanthropologist working in Ethiopia who was earlier associated with Dr. Johanson in research on the Lucy specimen. He reserved judgment on the new discovery, saying that whether the "new fossils expand an envelope beyond a single lineage or fit within the old envelope of afarensis" was still an open question. Meave Leakey is the wife of Richard Leakey, himself a paleontologist and the son of Louis and Mary Leakey, who pioneered the search for early hominid fossils in Africa. One of Meave Leakey's co-authors is her daughter, Louise, who is completing doctoral studies at the University of London and carrying on the family's fossil-hunting tradition. If the issue becomes an Australopithecus afarensis vs. Kenyanthropus platyops debate, it could reopen old wounds from previous conflicts between the Leakey family and Dr. Johanson, which became bitter after the Lucy discovery. Among other issues, members of the Leakey family initially questioned the place of afarensis in early human evolution. In a foretaste of arguments to come, Dr. Lieberman said the newly discovered skull "almost certainly" represents a new species. None of its main characteristics is in itself new, he noted, but "the combination of features is not found in any other known species." But he said he was less sure that the fossils belonged to a new genus, a broader grouping. Dr. Leakey acknowledged that "the genus designation is going to be what people question most." Defending her decision, she said that the fossils definitely did not resemble the genus Homo, which evolved much later, and that the teeth were too small and the face too distinctive to belong to a member of the Paranthropus genus. And she said she resisted placing the species within the Australopithecus genus simply because they were contemporaries. "Australopithecus has become too much of a dumping place," Dr. Leakey complained. In particular, she said in the team's report that the fossils' "unique pattern of facial and dental morphology" probably reflected the fact that the species occupied a new habitat and ate different foods than the afarensis. From about 2.5 million years onward, until the extinction of Neanderthals about 28,000 years ago, there were always two or more species of hominid in existence. For two decades, afarensis stood alone as the earliest hominid species. Then Dr. White in 1994 discovered fossils in Ethiopia that are thought to be 4.4 million years old and have been named Ardipithecus ramidus; details of the fossils remain scant. A year later, Dr. Leakey identified the earliest known australopithecine, the four-million-year-old anamensis. The new discovery, Dr. Leakey said, "just shows that the hominid diversity that was apparent from 2.5 million years on is now extended much earlier." --------------------------------------------- If you actually read the article, it says nothing about the theory of evolution being disproved. The whole problem with saying evolution is that the earth is a really really big place and there are relatively few archaeologists out there looking for this kind of information. It shouldn't surprise anyone that new information is continually arising and that the theory of evolution is continually being modified. If evolution sucks and creationism is the answer, prove to me that creationism exists. Prove to me that creationism is a more valid "theory" and I might listen to you. Otherwise, don't preach your religion to me because in my opinion creationism and religion suck. ------------------ Poopy!
I'm with Moe. If "Lucy" and this new skull (which is very much like ours) are the same age as they say...could it be the "Lucy" was really a monkey? ------------------
Who is the "you" you keep referring to Moe? ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
Actually Tex, there are many cases where the evidence points to evolution being wrong, or at least the current view of evolution at the time. The thing is, you only hear about it when more evidence is found "in support" of evolution, which really only means it can't be used to try to disprove it. ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
Actually, this skull is nothing like ours. If you look at a picture of it, you will notice that the skull has a flat face and heavy brow ridges. Furthermore, the skull itself is elongated and flattened in contrast to homo sapiens sapiens rounded skulls. If I was skilled, I could post some pictures, but I never get it right. ------------------ Poopy!
Yup, this proves the creationists' point of view. Maybe if we all start praying now, this skull won't come alive and eat up the good people of God. ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
You People , You Evil Evolutionists Cult doctors! , No Im sorry Im just really mad . So your telling me Creationism is a hoky theory ??? What is Evolution? The proof of Life? You people can have you own opinion even if you belive You were made from Goo , ...Oh wait you do . ------------------ "Eat your kids, play with your dinner and join the chat" - Dr of Dunk gives a public sevice announcement at the request of Mike Tyson .
I keep telling you all, but nobody listens. If you want concrete proof that man evolved from apes, just look at Patrick Ewing! ------------------ My dream job is to be a Houston Rockets towel boy.
I'm not sure what I believe, but you can't call evolution hokey and not creationism. I mean, what's more hokey than believing in a God that you can't see who made the world in seven days? Before you get all riled up, I do believe in God, and I do believe he created the world, obviously. I'm just not going to assume that I know his/her/its methods. Evolution as Charles Darwin put it may have been the way this world's creator did things. I don't know. For all we know, we're just God's third grade science project. (100 free posts to who can name the person I stole that from) ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
It seems sorta hypocritical to try to use scientific evidence to back your beilief in creationism. By the way moe, whaddaya have to say about the supposed age of that skull? 3.5 million years ago... According to the Bible, what was going on in the world 3.5M years ago?
It was 6... he took a break on the 7th. Oh, and I agree with what you said. ------------------ "It doesn't matter. If it's the Lakers or the Spurs, I'm going to kill them." -- Cuttino "Jack" Mobley on possible playoff opponents.
translation please? moe, will this be the abstract of your counterpoint in Bubba? LOL. OMG. "Between air conditioning and the Pope, I'll take air conditioning". ------------------ (===)
Man Im sorry , Sometimes I just have to rant I cant control it! ------------------ "Eat your kids, play with your dinner and join the chat" - Dr of Dunk gives a public sevice announcement at the request of Mike Tyson .
moe, chill. i also believe that we came from god , but other people have their opinions. its not our job to try to make them think differently . its up to them to decide what they believe in and we should respect their beliefs. ------------------ http://www.democrats.com mgh 1925-2001
Wow is that some sort of record?? 4 different posts all in the same minute? "On the First Day..." Does that mean "In the First 24 hours..." ? I dont know , its all a Faith thing . I have enough trouble putting faith in Walt Williams . ------------------ "Eat your kids, play with your dinner and join the chat" - Dr of Dunk gives a public sevice announcement at the request of Mike Tyson .
I'd no longer call myself a Christian, but I did until a few years ago. I was always satisfied with viewing the creation story in the Bible as an allegory, rather than a factual reporting of events. I could reconcile my belief in Christianity and my belief in science. What's the alternative? Believing the Bible's creation story to the letter and denouncing all scientific explanations as heresy?
We are still on the 6th day ... the 7th has yet to come. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
