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[@EvanSilva] - "Good team with arrow pointing down = #Texans

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Rick Rambis, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. ubigred

    ubigred Contributing Member

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    Chad Pennington 2.0
     
  2. conquistador#11

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    and tom brady! Tom brady game manager > tom brady who puts up sega genesis stats.


    Like I've said 1,000,000 times, the problem with schaub is that when he is feeling pressure that is not there, we're sitting ducks.

    The packers d-line, positioning an extra yard off the ball, really confused the Offensive line. The patriots ILBs and their fat man also got over on our line. Both had average defenses, yet dismantled each side of our offensive line...left, center, and right.
     
  3. ubigred

    ubigred Contributing Member

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    Sigh...

    Super Bowl MVP doesn't equal game manager. Birds of a feather: Eli, Big Ben, and Joe Cool. Not elite, but big time gamers.

    A guy who has zero mobility and below average arm strength will not lead/win a SB. Book it.


    Last I checked , presumably, we only have one potential HOF on our team.
     
    #83 ubigred, Jun 9, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  4. conquistador#11

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    ^right now I would welcome the writing, opening and closing of chapters for your book, as it would mean that the season is in full swing.

    Yet the start of the season feels like 2 years away. =(
     
  5. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    Go ask Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson about that. Both had limited mobility and subpar arm strength.

    LOL. "Joe Cool?" Until this January's run, the guy was known as a choker, including in the playoffs! He was disastrous against our very Texans in January 2012. Then he got hot at the right time and the reputation suddenly changed. Joe Flacco is the perfect example of why not to prematurely write off a QB.


    Huh? I'll be willing to bet a lot of money that Andre, Reed and Watt all end up in the Hall of Fame. Decent chance Foster and Cushing could as well, though longevity will play a role and that's to be determined.
     
  6. david_rocket

    david_rocket Member

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    Alex Smith also could be a great example, he would have lead the 49ers to a superbowl if not for 1 fumble.
     
  7. SSP365

    SSP365 Member

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    the two most important position in a football team is the qb and the head coach.

    Sadly,

    those two positions are the texans biggest liability.

    kubiak schaub.
    schaub kubiak.


    THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

    A glorified back up qb being coached by a glorified back up qb head coach.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    It's interesting that a team of "liabilities" at the two most important positions has won 24 games over the past two seasons, including multiple playoff games. Shouldn't you at least have to be in the bottom half of the league before you can even think of applying the "glorified backup" tag?
     
  9. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    You’re doing Schaub a disservice comparing him to Hostetler, Dilfer, Johnson, and other QBs of that ilk. He’s significantly better than those guys and it always bothers me when they become a default, “See? If (so-and-so) can win a Super Bowl, so can Schaub.”

    In the postseason of their championship runs:
    • Jeff Hostetler completed fewer than 60% of his passes; averaged less than 7 YPA; averaged 170 yards/game; and threw 3 TDs in three games.
    • Trent Dilfer threw 48 total passes in three playoff games in which he didn’t throw for more than 190 yards and had 2 TDs and 1 INT. In the Super Bowl, he completed 48% of his passes and averaged 6.1 YPA.
    • Brad Johnson averaged less than 7 YPA and threw 5 TDs and 3 INTs in three games. His best individual QB rating was 82.8.

    Those were absolutely, positively game managers, tasked with nothing beyond not screwing up. But as we saw in 2011 without him and then again in 2012 with him playing poorly - Schaub will have to play well for the Texans to win a Super Bowl. He’s an integral piece of this puzzle and of far more importance than merely game manager.
     
  10. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    I generally agree. Mostly made that comparison to examine a worst-case scenario standpoint, because the woe-is-me crowd always demands specific examples. The bottom line is that even the 2012 Schaub that struggled down the stretch would've had a chance to be a Super Bowl quarterback, in my opinion, if surrounded by the 2011 Texans. Having an elite QB is one way to contend, but it's not the only way, and it certainly doesn't automatically mean that your arrow is "pointing down" and that the franchise needs an imminent overhaul, despite what certain drama queens would like to believe.

    I think Schaub is clearly better than those guys, but even the version we saw in December and January (if we accept that as the "true Schaub", like the woe-is-me crowd wants to) is capable of leading some big wins for this team, pending development at other spots.
     
  11. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

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    I'm just grateful to see more of this:

    [​IMG]

    Over this:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Contributing Member

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    Thank you for this hard-core analysis.
     
  13. josephnicks

    josephnicks Member

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    theres one thing for a guy like flacco who possesses all the tools, yet to be considered a "choker" in the playoffs because he hadnt taken his team to the big game. versus a guy who really has no elite skills and cannot make a play beyond what he playbook tells him to do.

    flacco and schaub are night and day. i dont understand why you schaub apologist get off to down talking flacco to boost your pro-schaub arguments. when both these guys are "on" they do completely different things.. there is absolutely nothing comparable in these guys skillsets..

    a drop pass by lee evans in 2012 and the ravens are looking at back to back superbowls.. schaub has won 1 playoff game in his 9 year career. i guess you cant be a playoff choker if you dont play in the playoffs..

    talking about not writing guys off.. lol the guy is going into his 10th season. at his very best hes proven he can operate when the system is running to perfection.. thats his BEST, hes looked good a few times going 5 wide when trailing against soft zone defenses. thats pathetic, schaubs peak is a system qb..
     
  14. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    To me, the three best examples (all post- Brad Johnson, btw) are:

    • Tom Brady - Here are Brady’s QBRs in the final seven games of 2001, including postseason: 61.3, 63.6, 91.6, 62.1, 70.4, 84.3, and 86.2. The Patriots won that first Super Bowl almost in spite of him.
    • Eli Manning - In his first three full seasons as a starter, he threw 55 INT, including 20 the year they won their first Super Bowl; he never posted a QBR above 77 in any of those three seasons.
    • Joe Flacco – He was being run out of town as recently as December 22 *the year of his SB championship.* He’s had a QBR of 90+ just once in four years and has completed a ghastly 59% of his passes the past two years while, more or less, getting his offensive coordinator fired.

    No one – not a single, solitary person – would have pegged those guys as elite Super Bowl performers *before* they actually won a Super Bowl. In fact, I can prove it - Vegas gave Brady 14 points in his first Super Bowl – think about that: Tom Brady was handed two touchdowns. Manning got 12 in his first SB. Flacco got five- meaning Vegas favored the rookie making his, what? Ninth career start. And Peyton Manning and Brady were both favored by 9.5 over Flacco in the two preceding playoff games.

    Fully-formed elite QBs have arrived to the Super Bowl and won it – the other Manning, Brees, Rodgers, obviously the subsequent wins for Brady. But people are retroactively handing that label to others.

    Matt Schaub has been significantly better than Brady, Manning and Flacco were in their first Super Bowl wins. If you can’t win a Super Bowl with Matt Schaub (assuming he’s playing well), then the problem isn’t Matt Schaub.
     
  15. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    You're falling victim to "chicks dig long the long ball" syndrome: Flacco has a terrific arm - that is, with any consistency - his *only* elite skill. His decision-making and accuracy are far from elite - so much so, he got his offensive coordinator fired and the guy was being booed as recently as six weeks prior to winning the Super Bowl.

    Matt Schaub is accurate, makes good decisions and he moves the chains with brutal efficiency. Before he took a dive the final six weeks of last year – when, not coincidentally, so did the Texans – hmmm….. – Schaub had won 15 of 16 starts.

    Matt Schaub has not been a starter for nine years; that's completely disingenuous and you know it. As a Texan, he's made 79 career starts, one fewer than Flacco.

    Flacco rode a better team’s coattails in his early years – he was flat-out awful - I mean *AWFUL - in five of his first six postseason starts. The guy posted a 10 QBR is one playoff game. A 10! And that was his fourth career postseason start. Do you realize the riot that would ensue here if Schaub *ever* posted a 10 QBR in the postseason?

    Do you remember when Tom Brady missed an entire season and Matt Cassel led the Patriots to an 11-5 record? How about Matt Flynn's 6 TD performance spelling Aaron Rodgers in 2011? Do you know why otherwise scrub QBs can step in and play competently (to cite two examples)? I'll give you a hint: it has something to do with a system.

    This idea that labeling Matt Schaub a “system QB” is in some way an insult reveals your lack of knowledge when it comes to the NFL. They’re *ALL* system QBs (with the possible exception of PeePee Manning, who is, more or less, his own system). Trust me – Aaron Rodgers isn’t drawing plays up in the dirt with rocks and bottle caps.
     
  16. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Contributing Member

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    What if,...the Texans have their best season ever?
     
  17. josephnicks

    josephnicks Member

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    im so tired of arguing with those that constantly defend schaub.. im so frustrated with this poor qb i feel defeated.

    heres a post from TT that hit the nail on the head.. im done with it..

     
  18. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    So basically, you're running from the debate because you know Ric whipped you (don't worry, it happens to the best of us) and are seeking refuge behind a strawman.

    I don't think anyone is seeking to absolve Schaub from criticism. Take a look at my posts here, or the articles I wrote for the Houston Press... I crushed the guy.

    But he's not a "poor QB". He's not a "liability". The football he played prior to 2012 wasn't meaningless. Those arguments, all made by you in this thread, are asinine. He is what he is: a pretty good quarterback who isn't a great one.
     
  19. josephnicks

    josephnicks Member

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    whos ric? im tired of it because its th esame arguments over and over and hey now and others who make every excuse for schaub will continue to make more and more excuses..

    lets respond to hey nows response in cliffs notes..

    flacco has a big arm, longball nonsense - yes. that doesnt mean he can only throw the long ball. the long ball to beat deep coverage to speedy receivers with outh the aid of play-action. he can throw in tight coverages to beat defenders and can throw that tough to defend back shoulder pass. can you honestly say schaub has this in his arsenal??

    flacco was terrible in his first few playoff games - comparing a 30 year old schaub to a 23 year old flacco. wow you guys will continue with all the excuses.. im sure you will say age is irrelevant and schuab still outplayed flacco in his first playoff game.. blah blah same shiit over and over..

    matt schaub is a system qb isnt an insult because every qb outside of "peepee" is a system qb - you guys are reaching, when someone calls schaub a system qb you know exactly what it means. dont try to get literal because you really have no rebuttal to the whole schaub is a system guy..

    matt is 100% dependent on the kubiak/shanny system being ran to perfection.. he needs the PA, stretch, screen, dink/dunk thing to work to get those precious numbers. when he runs the bootleg he needs that TE to be streaking wide open. when a play breaks down, the qb breaks down because he is incapable of making a play beyond what the x's & o's dictate.. if a play doesnt unfold like we ran it in practice?? fccuk it, throw the ball away..

    its really a qb friendly system. he doesnt have to make too many decisions, if the play is not there throw it away..


    as far as this debate weve been having it for 4-5 years now. its the same bs. "detractors are using strawman." mean while schaubs numbers prove hes better than guys who have stepped up and taken their teams to the next level.. you guys love playing this game on paper..

    i love the texans, every time i get excited about the season. the sad reality hits me that matt schaub is still our qb.. he is not a winner. you guys just want to desperately see something that isnt there.. you act like those great games he posts against the jags, and titans will translate into afccg games in foxboro..

    bottom line schuab is the weakest link in the team. he has been for a while, but as long as we dont have 5 probowlers on the oline and the 2000 ravens defense, he will always have an excuse.. damn the de facto leader of the team stepping up and putting a team on his back when things arent going 100% perfect. blame the 5th/6th round right guard & tackle.
     
  20. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    If it's that simple, why did the offensive productivity significantly drop with Leinart and Yates? We had a pretty lengthy sample -- six regular-season games and two playoff games. The points/game went down by over 10 and yardage by close to 100, I believe. If Schaub's numbers are a product of this supposedly awesome QB system, why was his injury two years ago such a big hit to the offense?

    As for your "arm" argument, by that logic, we should sign JaMarcus Russell and make him our franchise quarterback. After all, he has the talent to make every difficult pass... nothing else matters, right?


    The weakest link on the team was the right side of the offensive line and the linebackers (post-Cushing). If you don't see that, you're delusional as all hell.

    There's no excuse. It's dealing with things in the confines of reality. Schaub isn't an elite quarterback. He's also not "poor", and the solid football he played before the last six weeks of 2012 wasn't "meaningless". There's a level somewhere in between elite and poor, and that's where Matt Schaub is. And whatever level he's at, quarterbacks below that level have won Super Bowls.
     

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