Does this hold any significance in your opinion? Europe tops US in stock market value http://www.ft.com/cms/s/bf6a00e4-e1...age=6700d4e4-6714-11da-a650-0000779e2340.html Europe has eclipsed the US in stock market value for the first time since the first world war in another sign of the slipping of the global dominance of American capital markets. Europe’s 24 stockmarkets, including Russia and emerging Europe, saw their capitalisation rise to $15,720bn (€11,819bn) at the end of last week, according to Thomson Financial data. That exceeded the $15,640bn market value of the US. The rise of the euro against the dollar, growth of east European markets such as Russia and stock market outperformance spurred by improving profitability have seen Europe close a long-held gap with the US. Ian Harnett at Absolute Strategy Research, who identified the move, said this marked a “seismic shift” in markets. The last time Europe eclipsed the US in market capitalisation was likely to have been before the first world war, said Mike Staunton, stock-market historian at London Business School. The shift mirrors a trend in the debt world, where European activity has caught up, and in some cases overtaken the US. European shares have outperformed the US, with their market capitalisation rising 160 per cent since the start of 2003 in dollar terms, said Thomson Financial. That compared with a 70.5 per cent rise for the US stock market. Over that time the euro has risen 26 per cent against the dollar. Europe trails the US on the indices of market capitalisation compiled by FTSE and MSCI and which are used by fund managers as benchmarks. However, these have a reduced or no weighting to shares that cannot be freely traded such as holdings of governments or controlling family shareholders. Europe has more companies with such stakes. Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2007
I think it's more of a cycle than a trend. Four years ago, the Euros were patting their backs when Airbus overtook Boeing as the leading commercial aerospace company. Now, Airbus is in financial trouble. The Economist had an interesting chart. Besides, I think they'd only do real damage when those markets consolidate into 2 or 3 big players.
This means zero, you think an investor in the an individual market is going to care that total European market cap is now bigger than US? (Note this includes Russia and emerging Europe. If anything, this shows just how big the US market is, plus the equity side is but a small fraction of the total financial market. Europe lags US by a wide margin in many other products, the innovation on Wall St leads all other markets.
Europe’s 24 stockmarkets, including Russia and emerging Europe, saw their capitalisation rise to $15,720bn (€11,819bn) at the end of last week, according to Thomson Financial data. That exceeded the $15,640bn market value of the US. The rise of the euro against the dollar, growth of east European markets such as Russia and stock market outperformance spurred by improving profitability have seen Europe close a long-held gap with the US. This is obviously a devious lie. According to economics as preached in biz schools, the biz section of leading newspapers and other generally accepted sources in the US, the Euros must be getting poorer every year. After all they have too high taxes, have too many public services, national health care, lots of unions, have too long vacations and other frequently acknowleged sources of economic inefficiency.
Care to analyze European countries' historical growth rates, their unemployment rate, their productivity rate, etc? Sorry your socialist wet dream doesn't really..... well, work.
What? I know its your schtick, but do you really have to take a pot shot at US every single time, even when you don't have a clue about the subject? Maybe you should move to Europe if you hate it here this much.
Nice, try, Biz school grad. Remember when we had Vijad? or some real economist on the bbs? TJ was left with relying on his GOP rhetoric, undergrad, biz school econ and WSJ stuff. It was almost cruel.
Deepblue. On what basis do you include that I don't have a clue about the subjec? I have lived almost my entire life in the USA. (50 plus years) I took some econ as an undergrad, and started an MBA program,including the two required MBA econ courses. The MBA program as a whole was interesting, but they are rather limited in their approach to economics IMHO. It is not that easy to just move to Europe for Americans. Many older Americans in the 50 to 65 yr old range, with serious health problems, (not me, and I have great private insurance) would love to. Besides despite the prevailing politcal ethos, I like it here in H Town overall. Big city with a pace much slower than say NYC or San Francisco, where a lot of my coursins live. As far as my "schtick" I am constantly in touch with the poor and rejects of American society in my work as a lawyer. I guess it keeps me fired up about the defects in American society, which a better political system could alleviate. Sorry if I am not a bond salesman, which tends to make you totally enomored with the present US economic system. I thing TJ does something like that or at least something with finances or somesuch for a large or at least wealthy private company.
glynch i'm glad your back and that you didn't die... but if you want to pay an average of 40% taxes (depending on the country in which you reside), use a falty health care system, and work in a system that encourages aloofness towards production... as deepblue said, maybe you should move to europe. although i would love to have several weeks of vacation, and if in spain get 3 hour lunch breaks daily. edit: nevermind
in the grand scheme, it really doesn't matter that much what exchange a stock is listed on despite the marketing campaign being waged by american exchanges about their declining comptetitiveness and begging for more concessions as a consequence. Large MNC's remain large MNC's no matter where their shares are traded. The fact is there's simply not a whole lot of huge gorilla companies left to securitize that can be listed on American exchanges - most big $$$ IPO's globally are from developing economies and are things like state run industries (in placing like China or the former USSR or India) privatizing - of course things like that are going to go public on places other than NYSE- it simply doesn't make any sense to do it otherwise. As far as European bourses being worth more- great. But I bet that has a lot more to do with weakness of the dollar vis a vis the Euro and the pound than anything else. Maybe NYSE can bring back Dick Grasso, their 100 million dollar man, to shepherd htem through such dire straits, lol.
Maybe NYSE can bring back Dick Grasso, their 100 million dollar man, to shepherd htem through such dire straits, lol Sam, maybe if Dick Cheney would run as the GOP presidential candidate in 2008 at least the so called "defense" stocks and Halliburton could lead another upward rally in the US exchange. I'm not sure if the Carlyle group has gone the IPO route yet.
This really doesn't mean much. Markets are cyclical by nature, and this data should be viewed on a year over year basis or on a historical average time scale. Using logic like this would make you abandon your American investments, and invest all in emerging markets like China, India, and South Korea. EU has been gaining in market cap, but they still lag behind the US in areas such as productivity, GDP, and unemployment. The US is already in an automobile and housing recession, and the sub prime housing market is on the verge of disaster. Any more spill out of the housing market can lead to a full blown recession of the US markets toward the end of 2007.
it doesn't make sense to go public in america due to Sarbanes Oxley (sp? i can never spell those names right). it is simply too expensive. also, earlier in the year the was another foreign milestone reached. i believe it was the first time ever that more companies were listing on foreign exchanges than in america. and i think NYSE is happy to have grasso gone even though it cost them that much to get him out of there. thain is doing a great job running it now and the NYS is kicking ass and taking names. don't forget that the Euronext deal just closed today so i guess that kind of does away with any importance WRT this milestone. also, they are feverishly trying to expand into as many markets as possible. i think the more interesting thing would be to watch how the merging exchanges effects the markets if at all.
Sarbanes Oxley or not - there is simply no reason why the Bank of China IPO (one of last year's biggest) would ever in a thousand years happen on the NYSE rather than in China or HK. In the same way there is no way the Blackstone IPO would happen in Hong Kong rather NYSE. The simple fact is that emerging markets are going to have a much higher overall volume of Public offering $$$ in the future because they have a lot more to offer - and it makes no political or economic sense for those offerings to occur in the US regardless of procedures. In the same way those US companies that go public aren't going to run to Bombay and do their IPO on the NIFTY. I've dealt with Sarbanes Oxley compliance a lot on the legal side and I think a lot of the stuff about companies b****ing about how hard it is is just that, IMO: silly whining. Yes there are costs associated with compliance but I don't believe they're high enough to be significant for really big companies - I mean I've seen the bills. That doesn't mean SOX is perfect, if anything, IMO it doesn't go far enough.
Don't know squat about Sarbanes Oxley other than conservos hate it as a an infringement on their precious MNC rights.. If Blackstone (assume it is the mercenary firm) went public would we be able to find out abut all their cushy deals as the Bush gang's private army. Would Sarbanes Oxley scare the Carlyle group into avoiding an IPO?
Hell, Max, some things you don't want to admit to. I sort of lied about it. That remeinds me of an old anti-lawyer joke.
I just about pay 40% in taxes so why not get the benefits as well. Hell I was thinking about it the other day and I know I pay 33% in taxes and even if I paid 50% in taxes, that would only be about 1/6th more than what I pay now. I'd gladly pay the extra 1/6th to get all of the benefits that people in Europe get. While their system may not be flawless, it isn't like it sucks.
