ethanol and the politics behind applying tariffs to brasilian ethanol

ethanol is horrible.

sugar
corn
weeds

its all the same... bring back the electric car. until then, promote biodiesel, and add msde back in to our gasoline. that would drop the costs not only at the pump, but in the grocery store as well.

 

let me see if i can find the article online. it was from bloomberg magazine and it was a study that showed american corn ethanol subsidies have actually led to food shortages and helped cause the run up in food prices worldwide.

 

posted a year ago. nostradamus anyone?

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2007-06/america-headed-food-shortage

 

I have a big day tomorrow (job interview and drop mom at the airport) so I can’t really get into the subject until tomorrow night or later. But Thank you for the soap box, I will put it too use later this weekend. But some quick points before I go to bed.

1.The US imposes a 54 cent tax on every foreign gallon of ethanol and also hands out a 51 cent tax credit to each gallon of gasoline that is blended with ethanol. Now if that isn’t protectionism at its finniest I don’t know what is. This policy basically prevents any incentive to import brasil’s ethanol.
2.BRasil and the USA make about the same amount of ethanol every year but brasil does it in about half the land. That means brasils land is twice as productive as the US counterpart.
3.Brasil uses Sugarcane vs USA uses corn.

4.And My favorite part about brasilian ethanol is the fact ethanol mills are nearly self sufficient and often times they sell back surplus energy much like solar power is does here in the USA.

Thanks Tigermisson, I will definitely be back to discuss further when I have more time and hopefully I will be employed by Triad resources

 

good luck with the interview. i look forward to your more insightful input.

 

serious question, can you grow as much sugar in America as you can in Brazil, due to climate

 

There are also other sources of fuel that we cannot even explore right now due to current federal laws (and the way they are interpreted).

http://www.votehemp.com/faq_7.html

FUEL

Hemp biomass as a source of fuel is the most under-exploited use of hemp, due to the fact that it is economically unfeasible at this time. Hemp stalks can be used in the generation of energy through a process called "chemurgy" which is a cross between chemicals and energy. The hemp stalk can be converted into a charcoal-like substance through a process called pyrolysis, and used for power generation and to produce industrial feed stocks. Auto giant Henry Ford was a pioneer in the pyrolysis process, and operated a biomass pyrolytic plant at Iron Mountain in northern Michigan.

Hemp as an auto fuel is another potential use. Almost any biomass material can be converted into methanol or ethanol, and these fuels burn cleanly with less carbon monoxide and higher octane. In fact, the diesel engine was invented to burn fuel from agricultural waste, yet ended up burning unrefined petroleum. Hemp seed oil can also be refined to produce a type of biofuel. Woody Harrelson recently toured the west coast with a diesel bus run on hemp biofuel, and a hemp-powered car toured North America a few summers ago, demonstrating the environmental benefits of biofuels.

 

Come on dude, have you seen the way biofuels have increased the prices for food all over the world, causing riots and protests?

Do you really want a similar price increase in weed?

People who constantly tout alternative fuels neglect the fact that these are subject to supply/demand forces as well. Haven't we pretty much come to the condlusion that ethanol subsidies are a horrible idea?

Oh, and not to mention that procuding them causes environmental damage as well.

 

Wouldn't bother me, I don't buy weed!

Actually, we wouldn't even have to legalize mar1juana in order to use hemp (a different product than mar1juana) for fuel. Hemp has very little THC and the THC is offset by CBC, a cannabinoid that offsets the effects of THC. You can't get high off of hemp, which is one of the main reasons that it is so idiotic that it is illegal to grow in this country.

 

Let me start off by saying that the US should not attempt to replicate Brasil’s Ethanol program that started in the 70’s (PROALCOOL) It is not feasible nor is it economical. There are many reasons for this:
1. Brasil has cheap labor and sugarcane production requires lots of it.
2. Brasil has a tropical climate that makes it possible to harvest sugarcane year-round
3. Brasil produces nearly the same amount of ethanol as the USA yet ethanol accounts for 3 percent of fuel in the USA and 40 percent of fuel in Brasil. That means the USA has many more vehicles than Brasil.
4. Sugar cane is the superior prime material for ethanol, Corn simply is not. Sugarcane produces around 7,000 liters of Ethanol per Hectare Vs around 3,500 for corn
NY Times

What I would like to see happen
1. Drop the 54 cent tariff on foreign ethanol.
2. Eliminate ethanol subsidies in the USA, 51 cents on every gallon produced with ethanol.
3. Create a Government standard that all oil must have 20-30% ethanol. This is important because ethanol is only viable when oil is at high prices, which it probably will be for the remainder of its time in use as our primary fuel. Ethanol currently is viable only when its price is 75 % that of oil.

For all intents and purposes this will hurt the ethanol production market in the USA. I don’t want to hear the corn growers b**** and moan because they still will get their normal subsidies for growing corn and this Is as good a time as any to reduce demand pressures on corn: Prices are at all time highs and floods are devastating the region causing a shortage in supply.

In my opinion this will elevate oil prices significantly. I don’t believe ethanol can become the main fuel, but I do believe that it can be a great supplement to our fuel and a tool to keep fuel prices under control. Brasil has so much land in the heartland that is called that can be used to expand production once the international markets open, that it’s not even funny. The prime area would definitely be the Cerrado.
Brazilian ethanol is controlled by the free market. There is no manipulation in the form of Government subidies. This points to ethanol production being sustainable under Brasil’s methods.

NY Times

Sorry about the long post

 

I think it would help

 

I rather look into wood based, celluloistic ethanol that doesn't interfere with food prices. Seems like switching to sugar would still cause rampant price spikes and speculation. After it hits a premium, farmers would switch to growing more sugar at the expense of other crops.

I'm not even sure we have the infrastructure to efficiently transport ethanol should it become 20-30% of our gas consumption. That stuff corrodes oil pipelines and takes up more volume to transport for the same energy.

 

I just put an order for 200 shares of czz. I hope Im right

 

I find it difficult to keep up with the debates surrounding alternative fuel sources, but I have one observation:

In the past 100 years, we've essentially turned the abacus into incredibly powerful computers that people can keep in their homes, we've transformed medicine to a catch-as-catch-can system of guesses (we couldn't even cure syphilis) into an extensive and largely effective system of diagnosing and treating diseases (and syphilis is easily treated), but .... we're still using essentially the exact same motive force for automobiles? With all the advances, in every single field except one, that we've made as a culture, we're still using the same 1900's technology to move ourselves around? Is the internal (oil-powered) combustion engine really that much of a stumbling block?

I just don't buy it. I think this is emblematic of the genuine and pervasive power that big-money oil has in our political system. I mean, seriously, with everything that's been accomplished, we haven't managed to get past the oil-hungry internal combustion system of locomotion? Seriously?

What a bunch of bull****.

 

You guys are freakin' me out. I'm still ticked off that I have to go to Mexico to get a Coke made with actual sugar. Yes, it tastes better! radapharoah, Branson is a pretty smart dude. If he thinks Brazil can supply a hell of a lot more sugar-based ethanol without harming their environment, and supply the US with a bunch of it, who am I to contradict him?



Trim Bush.

 

I just put shampoo and Fresca in my tank and I'm getting 200 mpg as I drive over the ocean. You're so right.

I joke as a self defense mechanism, but seriously, you're no Donaghey. By that I mean your comment has legs if I trust the progress of science and American ingenuity.

 

in 1900 most people were still riding horses, so in that regard we are still pretty advanced.... but you're correct that the internal combustion engine isn't much different than years ago. sure there are more computer components to it, we use fuel injection now, ect. but it's still petroleum based.

 

when you think about it, alot of technology isn't that more advanced than 100 years, its more efficient. cars still run on gasoline, buildings are still built with steel frames, all electronics are still powered by an electricity network that's just as old as fuel technology. all of these require raw materials depleting earth's resources.

car manufacturers have done a pretty good job of increasing fuel efficiency from the seventies, cheap gasoline in the late eighties/early nineties made us fall in love with the SUV. That's not a big consparicy (although its probably a lack of vision).

these shiny new HDTVs use alot of energy, these new computers use a lot of energy. we just don't think about it in the same way we think about cars/trucks and gasoline.