1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

espn- Wade, Bosh sour at LeBron being frontrunner

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by downbytheriver, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    26,455
    Likes Received:
    29,685
    They're all divas.

    I for one am amused to see the schism now.

    I've been looking forward to this ever since "not 1, not 2, not 3..."
     
  2. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Messages:
    13,510
    Likes Received:
    3,861
    He said how valuable it was for him to see someone with the SAME qualities that he had. Those qualities were there without Jordan. If he got drafted by the Clippers those same qualities would have been there. You are trying to credit Jordan with something Pippen said HE had. Pippen would have thrived in any atmosphere because HE had the attributes that great players like Jordan had, along with elite physical tools.

    I did look at the totality of his words. He is appreciative of Jordan as a teammate and friend, and honored that he is there presenting him. He said nothing that implied he gave Jordan the credit for the work that HE put in to be great. He said nothing to imply that Jordan had anything to do with him reaching the level of greatness that he reached.

    Scottie is in the greatest 50 ever because he played like one of the best SF's in league history. You can't name too many SF's that could score, run point, and defend damn near anyone. He had no holes in his game. That's why he is a top 50 player ever.

    Somehow, someway, other players have become elite players without playing with Jordan or for Phil Jackson. The common thread is typically elite physical tools and a willingness to keep improving.

    We saw Pippen play when he had to be the man every night. He was one of the best players in basketball.

    How did Nique manage to become a great player without a great teammate to push him? Or Hakeem? Or George Gervin? Or Ewing? Or Robinson? Or any other great player that didn't play with the type of teammate you are talking about? How are you concluding that Pippen could not have become great just like they did, considering that he had elite physical tools and a desire to keep improving?

    As far as the rest of your post, Pippen reached the tier that he did because HE kept putting in work to maximize his elite physical skills. I'm sure he would have managed to do the same thing elsewhere just like other great players with the same combo that didn't play with Jordan.
     
  3. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    91,305
    Likes Received:
    43,994
    I still remember their homecoming party

    It was semi grotesque and Bosh was was jumping like a child
     
  4. i3artow i3aller

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    20,163
    Likes Received:
    37,878
  5. spysta

    spysta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    14
    Jordan was so great

    How great was he?

    So great that one of the Greatest perimeter defenders in the history of basketball gets no respect. Seriously people are crazy, how can anyone with a straight face attribute all of someones success to someone else.......
     
  6. johnnytsunami

    johnnytsunami Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    6
    *sigh* Time and time again, you fail to truly read what I'm saying. In no way did I attribute Pippen's work ethic and love of the game to Jordan -- I said Pippen thrived in an atmosphere with someone who had the same qualities as he did, more so than he would've in a more lax environment. If you ever played any organized sports, you would understand why. If not, then I don't know how else to get this point across to you.

    He seems pretty appreciative of being able to practice against MJ day-in and day-out, something you deem to be trivial.

    I'm dumbfounded that you do not believe the right situation can make a huge difference in how someone's career turns out. Essentially our discussion is the same as the whole debate between nature vs. nurture. You believe Pippen's innate "nature" would have led him to the same place regardless, whereas I believe it was a blend of both that led him there. By your logic, Jordan would still be the GOAT without Pippen (which I also disagree with, mainly because he would not have 6 rings without Scottie). Another relevant example would be Clyde Drexler, who Scottie said had the same talent and drive to be just as good as MJ, but he lacked in fundamentals and coaching (aka development). [Source: http://projectspurs.com/2011-articles/pippen-says-clyde-the-glide-couldve-been-mj-good.html]

    Elite tools and willingness to improve is essential, yes, but just as important is development (which includes teammates, mentors and coaches). I guarantee each of those players you mentioned had a mentor, coach or teammate that helped push them to the level they reached.

    Your entire argument is based on the phantom statement "Pippen would not be great without Jordan" (which I never said, so if you want to keep arguing that point, go talk to the guy who said Pippen would be Danny Manning without Jordan). I've already established I believe he would be a HOF caliber player even without MJ. What I said was he would not have the same legacy/career/be as great without MJ. Nothing you say can ever change my mind on that and you will never be able to prove it otherwise since we cannot go back in time to change history. You also agreed that championships raises people to different tiers, so based on that alone, Pippen would not have reached the same tier, like you said, without Jordan.

    Yes, after developing into that player in his first six years in the league with the Bulls. We also saw Pippen here in Houston, where he discarded his "love for the game" and "determination" mainly because he did not like it here (mostly just Barkley), so don't say his circumstances would be the same no matter where he ended up (don't point to his age either, 32-33 is not that old).
     
  7. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    91,305
    Likes Received:
    43,994
    THIS BOSH IS ON FIRE
     
  8. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Messages:
    13,510
    Likes Received:
    3,861
    How are you coming to that conclusion (the bolded)? Have other stars with elite athletic skills and a high work ethic not thrived in lax environments? How did Hakeem become great here without that type of environment? Robinson in SA? Ewing in NY? Jordan when he first got to Chicago?

    And you seem to be pretty trivial that he keeps mentioning a mindset that he had (wanting to always win and practice hard), that would have translated into any other situation just like it did for other great players that didn't play with Jordan.

    Can, not does. I'm dumbfounded that you do not believe a player with elite athletic skills and a high work ethic could have become an all-time great in a different situation, especially since we have tons of examples of players doing just that. One in our own city!

    So Pippen could not have become great with the same teammates, mentors and coaches that Hakeem had here? What's most important is athletic ability and the willingness to improve.

    As far as the rest of your post, we can't prove any of this. But when it comes to someone becoming a great player, I'll assume said player could have been just as great anywhere else if he maintained the same skills and drive. I'll give the credit to that as opposed to playing with someone else, especially when said player has never given that player credit for his success.
     
  9. Houston22

    Houston22 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,254
    Likes Received:
    33
    You don't really know what "biting the hand that feeds you" means, do you?
     
  10. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35,804
    Likes Received:
    25,418
    Bosh is beasting. The Heat is 3-0. LeBron obviously was holding him back.
     
  11. Rokman

    Rokman Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    5,399
    Weeeeell, technically he didn't lie if he just said.Championships since they did when 4 straight Eastern Conference Championships. Ah, who am I kidding, LEBRON SUCKS!! Lol
     
  12. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    62,114
    Likes Received:
    29,464
    Cause he is Snottie Drippen

    Rocket River
     
  13. i3artow i3aller

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    20,163
    Likes Received:
    37,878
    [​IMG]
    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/a7FMXpAxCfU?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    :cool: Remix of Song :cool:

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/oWYp1xRPH5g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now